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by nonacona60 on 08 September 2010 - 23:09
Schaferhunden, have you ever done the VPA test?
by Pharaoh on 09 September 2010 - 00:09
Here's from www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php
(notice there is no KA-POWWWWWW)
HOW TO TEST
Here are the ground rules for performing the test:
• The testing is done in a location unfamiliar to the puppies. This does not mean they have to taken away from home. A 10-foot square area is perfectly adequate, such as a room in the house where the puppies have not been.
• The puppies are tested one at a time.
• There are no other dogs or people, except the scorer and the tester, in the testing area
• The puppies do not know the tester.
• The scorer is a disinterested third party and not the person interested in selling you a puppy.
• The scorer is unobtrusive and positions him or herself so he or she can observe the puppies’ responses without having to move.
• The puppies are tested before they are fed.
• The puppies are tested when they are at their liveliest.
• Do not try to test a puppy that is not feeling well.
• Puppies should not be tested the day of or the day after being vaccinated.
• Only the first response counts!
Top Dog Tips: During the test, watch the puppy’s tail. It will make a difference in the scoring whether the tail is up or down.
The tests are simple to perform and anyone with some common sense can do them. You can, however, elicit the help of someone who has tested puppies before and knows what they are doing.
1. Social attraction - the owner or caretaker of the puppies places it in the test area about four feet from the tester and then leaves the test area. The tester kneels down and coaxes the puppy to come to him or her by encouragingly and gently clapping hands and calling. The tester must coax the puppy in the opposite direction from where it entered the test area. Hint: Lean backward, sitting on your heels instead of leaning forward toward the puppy. Keep your hands close to your body encouraging the puppy to come to you instead of trying to reach for the puppy.
2. Following - the tester stands up and slowly walks away encouraging the puppy to follow. Hint: Make sure the puppy sees you walk away and get the puppy to focus on you by lightly clapping your hands and using verbal encouragement to get the puppy to follow you. Do not lean over the puppy.
3. Restraint - the tester crouches down and gently rolls the puppy on its back and holds it on its back for 30 seconds. Hint: Hold the puppy down without applying too much pressure. The object is not to keep it on its back but to test its response to being placed in that position.
4. Social Dominance - let the puppy stand up or sit and gently stroke it from the head to the back while you crouch beside it. See if it will lick your face, an indication of a forgiving nature. Continue stroking until you see a behavior you can score. Hint: When you crouch next to the puppy avoid leaning or hovering over the puppy. Have the puppy at your side with both of you facing in the same direction.
Top Dog Tips: During testing maintain a positive, upbeat and friendly attitude toward the puppies. Try to get each puppy to interact with you to bring out the best in him or her. Make the test a pleasant experience for the puppy.
5. Elevation Dominance - the tester cradles the puppy with both hands, supporting the puppy under its chest and gently lifts it two feet off the ground and holds it there for 30 seconds.
6. Retrieving - the tester crouches beside the puppy and attracts its attention with a crumpled up piece of paper.
by Schaferhunden on 09 September 2010 - 01:09
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 01:23 am
Hello, all, once again! Steve, you are really amazing! I don't think that I have EVER seen any writing so long and so seldom punctuated. I am just making a light-hearted jest, not a put-down, so please don't take it that way. I have a friend who does the same thing. His emails are like a "string of consciousness" sort of flow. I have heard that this is a habit of some Native American people, and as a matter of fact he is Lumbee Cherokee. Anyway, Steve, you made a comment about the mouth being to a dog what a gun is to a policeman. I will take that a step further... The mouth is to the dog a sort of all-purpose feature of the anatomy, and one of the things that it is to the dog is A HAND!! Think about it.. Dogs have NO other way to grasp anything as we do. Not only do they not have any opposable thumbs, but they have no moveable fingers. Someone pointed out the same thing to me once about parrots. What constitutes a "bite" to some people might really be a friendly or exploratory grasp. Personally, I like a lot of types of dogs, each for different reasons and purposes, and I believe that there is a theoretical perfect home and lifestyle for every dog. We may not be able to connect with it, but it could be there, if we could find it. I am a big believer in proper matchmaking when placing dogs. There is no absolute formula or chart for that, but an intuitive person who knows dogs and people very well can do it, in most cases. A "shit" dog to one person is a treasured life-long buddy for someone else. My Ufo would have been a perfect dog for me if I was guarding a very dangerous outpost all alone, maybe in a war-zone, and wanted a dog that would kill any intruder, no questions asked. In that situation, a dog like this might be invaluable. But he would still require an absolutely expert handler who was almost glued to him, as Steve said, eating and sleeping together. No off-time of his own, and very frequent obedience training sessions to reinforce authority in a ritualized manner such as the canine kind do! I have to tell you a funny little anecdote about my Ufy-poo! After I had him subdued and muzzled, and I was initially handling him.. two or three times only, he made experimental growls with me, to see if he could get away with it. I had a good-sized chunk of hardwood broom handle in my pocket for just such an occasion, and when I heard that, it came out immediately to give him a very sharp, HARD crack across the muzzle! No warning, just WHACK!!! Each time he did it, the growl was softer. The last time it was almost inaudible... But I have good ears, and I heard it! WHACK!!! If dogs could cry, it would have brought tears to his eyes. That broomhandle section had been used once on him to ride him to the ground, with him between my knees and the broomhandle passed under his collar and twisted like a tourniquette. I was willing to do it, again, if needed, but I never needed to. Just as hard as I was with him, I was extremely gentle, kind and thoughtful towards him when he was good. It didn't take him long to figure out that he should behave with me. He was the most obedient of dogs, after that. But only with me. He did try to challenge my daughter, once, but a shout from me immediately stopped it. He really gave me that, "Oh, Shit!..What did I do"? look. LOL The dog was very intelligent, and predictable, but ONLY if you understood what you were dealing with and laid down the law real hard. I just wish you all could have heard his last, pathetic attempt at assertiveness, his "tiny" growl. It was almost cute!
TRASH Janice Bartmess = convicted for abuse/neglect.......although she will say it was AR activists and write novels defending the abuse. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/8106/CA
by Doberdoodle on 09 September 2010 - 02:09
by Pharaoh on 09 September 2010 - 03:09
I think she is "displaying her brilliance" in hopes of attracting a following and thereby a market for her puppies.
I know someone, a nice decent person, that she mesmerized and acquired some of her breeding stock. Janice Bartmess has her convinced that she was setup by the Animal Rights Activists.
Mostly, I don't read her posts.
I wish she would just disappear - don't go away mad, just go away.....
Michele
by Doberdoodle on 09 September 2010 - 19:09
by Schaferhunden on 09 September 2010 - 19:09
by darylehret on 11 September 2010 - 11:09
If you want to understand dogs and their behavior, study wolves and wolf behavior. They are not wolves, but that is their roots, and where they draw their behaviors and instincts from. ~DDR
In our domestic canines, there is one characteristic in common and that stands out above all other animals; an innate desire to work in cooperation with humans. If I could only select for ONE characteristic, that would be the one, and certainly the least of all to do with wolves! Wolves do not look to humans for guidance or permission.
Not only THAT, but, because dogs are social animals, and the pack must function as one biological unit, they cannot be all born equal. As individuals, they can adapt, socially, and they do. But they will be born with a tendency towards social variability. This is precisely what happens.
Further.. This may surprise you, but that most of us would pick as the ideal broodbitch (assertive, high drive, etc) MAY not be the best broodbitch. All other things being essentially equal genetically within the same family (allowing for random variance), the quietest and most docile and submissive bitch may be the best broodbitch. If you don't believe this, check out the Sawtooth pack. The mate of the alpha male was previously the omega in the pack.. the very lowest in rank. ~DDR
On this point I must agree; I also fail to see a correlation that social dominance should by any means translate to effectiveness in training. How is rank drive going to help? Your dog doesn't benefit by perceiveing that it's making the helper it's little bitch, as cool as it may look or as much pride as it may give you. Lower ranked members don't necessariliy lack confidence or courage in the face of a threat, and higher ranked members don't necessarily have it. Oftentimes also, plain stubborness and beligerant behavior is mistaken for dominance, and that sort of behavior is useless, if not outright counterproductive (just as in human relationships). There is no certainty that either alphas or omegas, antisocial or family-friendly dogs have any particular weakness or advantage.
The social roles that are filled keep group order and cohesion. I've often observed omegas from the group socially elevate themselves to alpha under the dynamics of time and change. When an important group member leaves, another will naturally fill that vacancy and assume the role. It's almost always the oldest in the group, or the one that retains the longest group membership. I could be the one with the priveledge of having closer bond to the owner/handler than the others. Social dynamics are relative to the group, and not necessarily something to benefit you in your selection of a good working prospect.
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