Dulles Airport K-9 in training (Mali) attacks child - Page 5

i definitely agree phil. That shoudl go on the bad training advice thread!

I am  6' 1 size 12 shoe as well. 240lb and you would never be able to do that
except on the internet. Handler attacks and dog attack are not nesseray and it
should be put were every one can see it.  Good dog training start swhen the dog is young.
I have seen bad dogs in litters that should not have been sold. Phil go back and read
the post several times until it sinks in. Jon

Another thread filled with some interesting, thought provoking responses and others who barely read the article before commenting. 

FIrst, It is a shame the young girl got bit by the dog.  It should never have happened.  It is the handlers responsiblity to be in full control his dog at all times.  There is no excuse. 

 I have worked football games that were televised on ESPN with my dog and walked through crowds of thousands of people in the stands.  People rarely look where they are going and don't look down and would bump into me (some I think on purpose) then see the dog and scream, jump and freak out.  I have to be hyper vigilant, because my dog is not friendly and doesn't like anyone, kids or adults.  This doesn't make him a dog with a poor temperament, he's a working Police dog and he likes me that's all that matters.  It is my job to ensure he doesn't bite the wrong person. 

Second, Customs and Border Patrol have dual purpose dogs.  Patrol and Narcotics or explosives.  For those commenting on the training please do some research before posting. 

Keith, I agree that perhaps some protocol needs to be revised or changed. 

Mali's are used for this every day, let's not knock a breed or an agency that does a million things right every day for the mistake of one handler. 

There is so much that can be said in an attempt to correct the misinformation already posted regarding the training, the breed, the agency.  Frankly, it would take too much time and effort. 

I will comment on outing the dog by kicking it in the chest.  That is horrble and should never be done to any dog.  Dogs have a cluster of nerves in their chest and it could do serious damage to kick a dog there.  Please, any one reading this thread, never do that.  If that's how you teach your dogs respect, find a new hobby.

JMO,

Jim

 

eichenluft
There may be no exquse for the dog to bite a child but there most definitely are reasons.And YES one of them is that;
Children most definitely can provoke a dog to bite.
It is not a legal provocation but Mother nature provocation based on normal inherited instincts and drives. If the dog bites then he was provoked to bite. That is unless he has a brain tumor or something.  

Running, crying, screaming, falling down, fighting, flailing hands, and manny  other reasons may provoke an attack in ANY DOG!!!!!!!! 

Dogs are not little robots.
eichenluft
 Attitude like yours endangers little children. Children should be educated and controlled by adults so that they do not think that every dog is a Lassie.
 > Also Jon luc
You must either be  trying to get a rise out of people  here or you must be an imbecile to do that to a dog as  a training method. God help you and me if you do that in front of me.  Now I understand why people are saying that trainers are mean.
That is why I recommend Muzzle.
This dog was in training. But that does not matter if trained or not. Police dog trained or in training in crowded areas should be muzzled.
It is a PC BS which make people think that dogs are little people with a reasoning of a college professor and restrain abilities that  of a Buddhist monk. 

Rule No. 1 

Do not set yourself up for failure!
Always think worst case scenario.
What  if a little child runs and screams here. Am I going to be able to control my K9?
What  if  someone in the crowd steps on my K9s foot?
What  if   I am not looking or am distracted and someone approaches my K9 in improper way.
You get my picture.
Thus police dept and public laws in Czech and elsewhere in Europe require dog to be muzzled in public . And I agree.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

I think its safe to say that her college is now paid for, and then some...

I agree about the kicking the dog in the center of the chest...Anyone EVER dreams of doing such to any dog of mine is going to answer for it, Jon.

Heavy handed treatment like that will do little to teach the dog anything other than to fear you, and could hurt him severely, even kill him, if your size 12 hits a little too hard.  Such treatment of a dog is no way to train; it destroys trust and trust is key in training.

From what I understand of PPD and K9 training, to take that approach would do one of two things:  Ruin the dog by causing him to fear, or turn him eternally mean.  If you're dealing with a dog that has behavioral issues that make him dangerous enough to even consider such methods, you have already failed, or have screwed up the dog.

I haven't trained for any type of protection yet.  I have trained in basic obedience.  I know how to discourage biting, and when I decide to train my first dog in protection type work, whether Schutzhund or other, I will have to learn new methods to deal with unwanted biting, such as redirecting, which is not something I do right now.  But I will NEVER kick my dog as a disciplinary measure; there are so many other tried and true methods for training a dog, even the hardest, most aggressive dogs.

As to the girl being bitten by the dog, something she did triggered the dog.  It is tragic that a child was hurt, but as evidenced by the fact that the mother was bitten multiple times getting the dog off her daughter, it was a failing of the handler, first and foremost.  What was he doing?  Where was his intervention?  Perhaps the dog was not the right temperament for the situation, who knows?  But the fact remains that she should never have been bit because if there was even the slightest doubt as to whether the dog was under control or not, he should have been muzzled or should not have been there in the first place.  Hans has a point there...Muzzles don't stop the dog doing his job...but they do stop the public from being hurt unnecessarily.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Crys

"I will comment on outing the dog by kicking it in the chest. That is horrble and should never be done to any dog. Dogs have a cluster of nerves in their chest and it could do serious damage to kick a dog there. Please, any one reading this thread, never do that. If that's how you teach your dogs respect, find a new hobby."

No doubt and it can be dangerous.  I had several people I trained with stop by my house to pick up a whelping box and one of them kneed my (at that time 15 month old) male GSD in the chest when he jumped up on her and it got ugly fast.  He was definitely surprised by it...fell back and let out a little yelp...it took him maybe a half a second to recover before he went after her.  Had I not been paying attention or not been as close as I was, there would have been serious carnage.  Funny thing was that all of them were like, "nice dog!"

I don't care how a 4 year old child could or did provoke a dog to bite her.  There is no excuse for any dog to bite a 4 year old child!!!  None!!!!!  The dog shouldn't have been there if it's temperament wasn't 100% in public - and the handler is at fault for not controlling his temperamentally unstable dog.  End result - no matter who you ask, the child was not at fault.  The handler was, and the dog was (shoudln't have been there in the first place), and through them the agency providing and training the dog/handler was (Customs) and the organization who hired them (the airport) was.    These people all learned their mistakes the hard way. I guarantee that whatever the 4 year old child did to "provoke" the dog, she didn't learn anything from it other than to have a lifetime fear of dogs.  The child and the dog loses, and it was not their fault.

molly

I totally agree with you Molly.