American lines question - Page 5

Thanks LAVK-9  - I just marked my calendar.

You are not likely to see. any "specials" there.  They mostly compete in "Specialty Shows" and not all bread AKC shows.  Some of the shepherds I have seen in all breed shows don't look too bad.

Michele

Your welcome MaggieMae.Here is the link to the Westminster.I knew it was sometime around the other show.
http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/
I guess there are 3 new breeds that are going to be shown.

I think its sixty times per year, but I could be wrong.

"The roach back was introduced by the Martin brothers, who dominated the German SV show scene until very recently."

Not true.  It was first selected for back in the early 1950s, as a compensatory response to what was perceived as the weak back of the most prominent stud of the time, Rolf vom Osnabruckerland.  

The roach back was essentially banned by the Sieger Show adult male judge who preceded Walter Martin, Dr. Christopher Rummel.  So its presence pre-existed the Martins.  

Most backs that people today think are roached are really the result of extreme stacking or actual over-angulation in the hindquarters.  A true roach back is not merely curved, but one where the upper and middle spine are actually higher than the withers when the dog moves freely.  It is certainly true that many of today's German showline dogs are more angulated than in the past, and that the Martins were in some part responsible for the trend - but that has nothing to do with truly roached backs, which are actually not all that common.  

That is terrible. What the heck is wrong with these breeders? Why can't "they" see what others "see"??
Are there any Dog Shows coming up soon on TV? I definitely want to see these American GSDs.

No, you don't.  It's infuriating and nauseating.
To get the full effect, go to a specialty show.

Thanks, DD, for saving me the time of looking that up.  I think of Rolf every time I see that croup.

A second thanks DD that was some good info!!

Sunsilver, what happens to Eddie's conformation, if he is standing on all four feet(the pads) like dogs are supposed to?. Don't mean the question negative...just curious as to what it does to the conformation picture if the dog is not stacked partially on it hocks. I think germany limits Studs to sixty breedings a year.

A couple of years ago, I happened to catch a replay of the Westminster show on TV late one night...it was about the time that the herding group was due to do their thing, and so I watched that part of the show.  Of course, by that time, the only ones left were the "top" dogs in each breed, group, etc, so you had only one of each dog in the classes.  I watched the herding dogs..The collie, with its super narrow "pinhead" which is so different from the old Collie we had when I was little.  The various other herding breeds...Then came the Shepherd.  A black and tan male, as I recall.  Heavy in body, extreme in angulation...That "flowing sidegait" thing was painful to watch.  I couldn't watch beyond the placing...As I recall, the Shepherd wasn't chosen from that group, which was good, but he was a sad specimen of his breed, though obviously very good by AKC judges' standards.  I say judges' standards because what I read in the standard doesn't even come close to describing these GSD in the AKC showring of today.

I love the GSD, but when I see the majority of the American bred GSDs, it is very obvious that our breed is on serious decline in this country, and the current showdogs of today, in my opinion, really need to be spayed and neutered.  Even working requirements wouldn't be enough, because they are so crippled looking.  Standing with the hock on the ground, or walking on them is not healthy, not correct, and nowhere near acceptable, yet politics has demanded that these cripples place and be overbred.

An American breeder of American line GSD once told me that all German dogs are crap, because they all produce mega-esophagus, hip dysplasia, and numerous other problems.  That the only way to get a good dog was to buy from American lines.

Then, I didn't know any better, but my research since then has shown me that while both German and American lines have flaws that they pass on, from health problems to structural flaws, the simple fact is that breeding for the show fancy, concentration on certain lines and exclusion of others, has magnified issues within certain lines, regardless of country.  I wonder if dog shows in general shouldn't be discontinued, as they contribute strongly to both the popularity of the breed in general (leading unscrupulous breeders to pump out puppies to fill that market) and the weakening of the breed by breeding too much on certain lines and sacrificing genetic diversity in the breed.

I'm no expert, as I've said, but it just doesn't seem that complicated to me.

Crys