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by wdog86 on 28 June 2009 - 18:06
Thanks for the input Crysbuck25. Yeah, I recognize that these dogs are smart because they come from working lines. But the children of doctors are generally pretty bright regardless of whether they ever choose to go into medicine themselves. Likewise with dogs.
As for the vet bills, it seems you are stuck in the idea that anyone who breeds for large dogs is necessarily a charlatan who doesn't care about the dogs' health. I am sure there are breeders out there who fit that description. However, I am equally sure that there are a larger number of breeders out there who run puppy mills for standard sized dogs just for the money. The first thing that everyone seems to say about buying a GSD of any size these days is "watch out."
But my friend had such a dog and I have known others with such dogs, and vet bills were not a problem for the majority of them. So there are big, healthy dogs out there. I am sure of that.
Picking a good dog and a good breeder is pretty much the same for any GSD, whether it weighs 40 pounds or 400. Buyer beware, and do your homework before you buy. You know, same as you would do if you wanted a Schutzhund dog, or a show dog, or whatever.
As for the vet bills, it seems you are stuck in the idea that anyone who breeds for large dogs is necessarily a charlatan who doesn't care about the dogs' health. I am sure there are breeders out there who fit that description. However, I am equally sure that there are a larger number of breeders out there who run puppy mills for standard sized dogs just for the money. The first thing that everyone seems to say about buying a GSD of any size these days is "watch out."
But my friend had such a dog and I have known others with such dogs, and vet bills were not a problem for the majority of them. So there are big, healthy dogs out there. I am sure of that.
Picking a good dog and a good breeder is pretty much the same for any GSD, whether it weighs 40 pounds or 400. Buyer beware, and do your homework before you buy. You know, same as you would do if you wanted a Schutzhund dog, or a show dog, or whatever.
by wdog86 on 28 June 2009 - 18:06
>you crapped the thread from the first post.
I asked a question that I have heard easily more than a dozen times from other people. I realize you may live in your own little world where reality may not intrude, but trust me when I tell you that there are people out there who want a particular kind of dog.
>they have standards for a reason.
Yes, and I explained in the first post why some of those reasons mean absolutely nothing to me. You know, different people have different needs and wants. You may run into that concept occasionally as you work in the adult world. You know, the floppy ears thing. Floppy ears may be a complete no-no to you. For other people, they may just not care because it doesn't affect anything important to them.
Other people -- other points of view. Keep repeating that to yourself until it sinks in.
>i dont necessarily depend on titles but size is a huge problem.
I have seen big, healthy dogs from the GSD line so apparently it is not an insurmountable problem.
>health and longevity are good things and just like oversized humans,there
>are extra problems with oversized shepherds.
Which naturally means that everyone in the NBA must have hip dysplasia. There are big, healthy people. There are big, healthy dogs. "Big" doesn't necesssarily equal "sick". I know because I have seen both big healthy people and big healthy GSDs up close.
>there are plenty of people that are doin this.good luck.
That's why I came here -- to perhaps find them and get some helpful feedback on the subject. It would be nice if you actually had something worthwhile to offer but I am afraid that ship has sailed.
I asked a question that I have heard easily more than a dozen times from other people. I realize you may live in your own little world where reality may not intrude, but trust me when I tell you that there are people out there who want a particular kind of dog.
>they have standards for a reason.
Yes, and I explained in the first post why some of those reasons mean absolutely nothing to me. You know, different people have different needs and wants. You may run into that concept occasionally as you work in the adult world. You know, the floppy ears thing. Floppy ears may be a complete no-no to you. For other people, they may just not care because it doesn't affect anything important to them.
Other people -- other points of view. Keep repeating that to yourself until it sinks in.
>i dont necessarily depend on titles but size is a huge problem.
I have seen big, healthy dogs from the GSD line so apparently it is not an insurmountable problem.
>health and longevity are good things and just like oversized humans,there
>are extra problems with oversized shepherds.
Which naturally means that everyone in the NBA must have hip dysplasia. There are big, healthy people. There are big, healthy dogs. "Big" doesn't necesssarily equal "sick". I know because I have seen both big healthy people and big healthy GSDs up close.
>there are plenty of people that are doin this.good luck.
That's why I came here -- to perhaps find them and get some helpful feedback on the subject. It would be nice if you actually had something worthwhile to offer but I am afraid that ship has sailed.
by CrysBuck25 on 28 June 2009 - 19:06
Wdog86,
Breeders of non-standard GSD don't tend to frequent boards like this one, for many reasons that I have stated above, and that others have stated as well.
From what I have seen, there aren't really any good forums where you can talk to people who breed the extra large sized dogs like what you are looking for. There are a few threads on a guy who breeds substandard dogs, floppy ears, hugely oversized, all that, but from what I've seen of his website, poor spelling, poor grammar, and his being convinced that you can grow a Shepherd to this huge size simply by feeding it his "special" diet, I couldn't recommend that you buy from him.
If I were you, and looking for what you are looking for, I'd contact Tina Barber or another Shiloh breeder, tell them that you are looking for a very large GSD, and ask them what they can suggest. That would be your best bet. There are the so-called King Shepherds, bred for their large size, that you could look into as well. But I doubt you'll be able to find anyone here that will personally know a breeder.
Yes, there are big GSD, and there are likely breeders who do the hip and elbow OFAs. If you know of such a kennel, where a friend of your got such a big dog that's the perfect one, then I'd go with it, if I were you. There aren't a huge number of them out there.
This is my final post on this topic, but I wanted to add one final thought. Just because a dog can run and jump and do all those things, and he's oversize, doesn't mean that he can't be dysplastic. Mild HD can have no symptoms, and that's been said over and over again on this board. The only way to know for sure that a dog is healthy and not suffering from HD is to have his hips checked by OFA when he's two.
Crys
Breeders of non-standard GSD don't tend to frequent boards like this one, for many reasons that I have stated above, and that others have stated as well.
From what I have seen, there aren't really any good forums where you can talk to people who breed the extra large sized dogs like what you are looking for. There are a few threads on a guy who breeds substandard dogs, floppy ears, hugely oversized, all that, but from what I've seen of his website, poor spelling, poor grammar, and his being convinced that you can grow a Shepherd to this huge size simply by feeding it his "special" diet, I couldn't recommend that you buy from him.
If I were you, and looking for what you are looking for, I'd contact Tina Barber or another Shiloh breeder, tell them that you are looking for a very large GSD, and ask them what they can suggest. That would be your best bet. There are the so-called King Shepherds, bred for their large size, that you could look into as well. But I doubt you'll be able to find anyone here that will personally know a breeder.
Yes, there are big GSD, and there are likely breeders who do the hip and elbow OFAs. If you know of such a kennel, where a friend of your got such a big dog that's the perfect one, then I'd go with it, if I were you. There aren't a huge number of them out there.
This is my final post on this topic, but I wanted to add one final thought. Just because a dog can run and jump and do all those things, and he's oversize, doesn't mean that he can't be dysplastic. Mild HD can have no symptoms, and that's been said over and over again on this board. The only way to know for sure that a dog is healthy and not suffering from HD is to have his hips checked by OFA when he's two.
Crys
by wdog86 on 28 June 2009 - 19:06
>Breeders of non-standard GSD don't tend to frequent boards like
>this one, for many reasons that I have stated above, and that others
>have stated as well.
>From what I have seen, there aren't really any good forums where
>you can talk to people who breed the extra large sized dogs like
>what you are looking for.
Which kinda leaves this board as the best option, if not a perfect one. Still, having said that, it seems that some people ought to realize that there is a demand for the type of dog I specified, whether it is anyone else's favorite or not.
>There are a few threads on a guy who breeds substandard dogs,
>floppy ears, hugely oversized, all that, but from what I've seen of
>his website, poor spelling, poor grammar, and his being convinced
>that you can grow a Shepherd to this huge size simply by feeding
>it his "special" diet, I couldn't recommend that you buy from him.
I haven't seen him, but I would say that you are correct. Special diets can produce fat dogs, not big ones. I am not looking for that.
>If I were you, and looking for what you are looking for, I'd contact
>Tina Barber or another Shiloh breeder, tell them that you are looking
>for a very large GSD, and ask them what they can suggest.
I have looked into Tina Barber. Let it suffice to say that (IMO) she had a great idea but things I have seen about lawsuits she has been involved in didn't strike me as particularly good. At one point, I asked her about those lawsuits and the answer I got was "Everybody gets complaints" which, to my mind, wasn't an adequate response. I am sure there are probably other Shiloh breeders out there so I will look into those.
>That would be your best bet. There are the so-called King Shepherds,
>bred for their large size, that you could look into as well.
Thanks. I have heard of those but those seem to be even rarer than Shilohs.
>But I doubt you'll be able to find anyone here that will personally know a breeder.
I would recommend that some people here broaden their outlook and recognize that everyone doesn't live in their little box but it doesn't seem like that will happen.
>Yes, there are big GSD, and there are likely breeders who do the
>hip and elbow OFAs. If you know of such a kennel, where a friend of
>your got such a big dog that's the perfect one, then I'd go with it, if I
>were you. There aren't a huge number of them out there.
As I mentioned, that breeder doesn't have any available and isn't planning any for a while. But perhaps they know someone trustworthy so I will ask them.
>This is my final post on this topic, but I wanted to add one final thought.
>Just because a dog can run and jump and do all those things, and he's
>oversize, doesn't mean that he can't be dysplastic. Mild HD can have no
>symptoms, and that's been said over and over again on this board. The
>only way to know for sure that a dog is healthy and not suffering from HD
>is to have his hips checked by OFA when he's two.
I prefer Penn Hip myself but either one requires a fairly mature dog so, if one is going to buy a puppy, then looking at the parents' health histories seems to be the next best thing. I should add that, in the case of my friend's dog, all the pups in the litter were OFA Fair or better. Good enough for a family pet, anyway.
Thanks.
>this one, for many reasons that I have stated above, and that others
>have stated as well.
>From what I have seen, there aren't really any good forums where
>you can talk to people who breed the extra large sized dogs like
>what you are looking for.
Which kinda leaves this board as the best option, if not a perfect one. Still, having said that, it seems that some people ought to realize that there is a demand for the type of dog I specified, whether it is anyone else's favorite or not.
>There are a few threads on a guy who breeds substandard dogs,
>floppy ears, hugely oversized, all that, but from what I've seen of
>his website, poor spelling, poor grammar, and his being convinced
>that you can grow a Shepherd to this huge size simply by feeding
>it his "special" diet, I couldn't recommend that you buy from him.
I haven't seen him, but I would say that you are correct. Special diets can produce fat dogs, not big ones. I am not looking for that.
>If I were you, and looking for what you are looking for, I'd contact
>Tina Barber or another Shiloh breeder, tell them that you are looking
>for a very large GSD, and ask them what they can suggest.
I have looked into Tina Barber. Let it suffice to say that (IMO) she had a great idea but things I have seen about lawsuits she has been involved in didn't strike me as particularly good. At one point, I asked her about those lawsuits and the answer I got was "Everybody gets complaints" which, to my mind, wasn't an adequate response. I am sure there are probably other Shiloh breeders out there so I will look into those.
>That would be your best bet. There are the so-called King Shepherds,
>bred for their large size, that you could look into as well.
Thanks. I have heard of those but those seem to be even rarer than Shilohs.
>But I doubt you'll be able to find anyone here that will personally know a breeder.
I would recommend that some people here broaden their outlook and recognize that everyone doesn't live in their little box but it doesn't seem like that will happen.
>Yes, there are big GSD, and there are likely breeders who do the
>hip and elbow OFAs. If you know of such a kennel, where a friend of
>your got such a big dog that's the perfect one, then I'd go with it, if I
>were you. There aren't a huge number of them out there.
As I mentioned, that breeder doesn't have any available and isn't planning any for a while. But perhaps they know someone trustworthy so I will ask them.
>This is my final post on this topic, but I wanted to add one final thought.
>Just because a dog can run and jump and do all those things, and he's
>oversize, doesn't mean that he can't be dysplastic. Mild HD can have no
>symptoms, and that's been said over and over again on this board. The
>only way to know for sure that a dog is healthy and not suffering from HD
>is to have his hips checked by OFA when he's two.
I prefer Penn Hip myself but either one requires a fairly mature dog so, if one is going to buy a puppy, then looking at the parents' health histories seems to be the next best thing. I should add that, in the case of my friend's dog, all the pups in the litter were OFA Fair or better. Good enough for a family pet, anyway.
Thanks.
by Saphira on 28 June 2009 - 20:06
pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Oversized_German_Shepherds/
wdog86, Check your Personal Messages as well. Thanks
wdog86, Check your Personal Messages as well. Thanks
by Slamdunc on 28 June 2009 - 22:06
Everyone is entitled to their personal taste and preferences. If an over sized dog that somewhat resembles a GSD is your cup of tea then have fun with it. However, people breeding dogs without regard to the standard have pretty much ruined the breed. That is my problem with your post. Your looking for a dog that resembles the GSD, but is no longer a GSD. Because you've seen people that are impressed by an over sized dog shows their ignorance for the breed as well. Reminds me of an attraction at a carnival, everyone knows it's weird but no one knows why. The breed is so diluted now it becomes hard to find suitable dogs to do any type of work. The type of dog you are looking for has even less of the traits a GSD is known to possess and more of the health problems. It becomes a sad situation.
Sorry, but I don't feel that I am the one that needs to broaden my outlook on GSD's. I know what a GSD is, and what it should be and should do. I love all breeds of dogs and appreciate the individual traits unique to each breed. I prefer the GSD as an all around dog for it's intelligence, size, temperament and working ability. I have owned American GSD's, German Show line dogs and working line dogs. I prefer working dogs, but I realize that most people just want a nice pet and family companion and don't plan on working, competing or showing them. A GSD can fill this role as well, they re great family dogs just ask anyone on this forum.
Go to the link provided above, I'm sure you'll find like minded individuals and the type of dog you are looking for. Saphira seems very willing to help you. They are nice "designer dogs" as mentioned earlier like "Shepadoodles", more mutt than GSD but can be very nice pets never the less. Actually, don't rule out "Shepadoodles" they are actually very intelligent good natured dogs.
You seem to have done your research already, I'm surprised you didn't find the yahoo group on your own. Good luck with your dog. I hope you find exactly what you are looking for.
Jim
Sorry, but I don't feel that I am the one that needs to broaden my outlook on GSD's. I know what a GSD is, and what it should be and should do. I love all breeds of dogs and appreciate the individual traits unique to each breed. I prefer the GSD as an all around dog for it's intelligence, size, temperament and working ability. I have owned American GSD's, German Show line dogs and working line dogs. I prefer working dogs, but I realize that most people just want a nice pet and family companion and don't plan on working, competing or showing them. A GSD can fill this role as well, they re great family dogs just ask anyone on this forum.
Go to the link provided above, I'm sure you'll find like minded individuals and the type of dog you are looking for. Saphira seems very willing to help you. They are nice "designer dogs" as mentioned earlier like "Shepadoodles", more mutt than GSD but can be very nice pets never the less. Actually, don't rule out "Shepadoodles" they are actually very intelligent good natured dogs.
You seem to have done your research already, I'm surprised you didn't find the yahoo group on your own. Good luck with your dog. I hope you find exactly what you are looking for.
Jim
by 3crzygsds on 28 June 2009 - 22:06
Buckeye - I have the 80lb - 18 inch beagle you were lookin for ....wont hunt...wont do much of anything cause of his major confirmation flaws but for a few pennies he is all yours!
And its really all about you and what you want not what is good for the dog and or its health in the long run.
All that weight on a short back but hey....As long as the customer is happy everyone is happy!
And its really all about you and what you want not what is good for the dog and or its health in the long run.
All that weight on a short back but hey....As long as the customer is happy everyone is happy!
by MaggieMae on 28 June 2009 - 23:06
by wdog86 on 29 June 2009 - 00:06
>Everyone is entitled to their personal taste and preferences.
>If an over sized dog that somewhat resembles a GSD is your
>cup of tea then have fun with it.
And, apparently, everyone is entitled to be rather bigoted about other people's taste and preferences.
>However, people breeding dogs without regard to the standard
>have pretty much ruined the breed. That is my problem with your post.
I have news for you. If you go shopping for ANY variety of GSD, the first thing you will hear is that the breed has been ruined by all sorts of breeders -- including those breeders who got confused and thought the standard meant that the dog should have a deformed rear end. So the problem is one of GSDs in general being ruined. (Yeah, I know, you and the few True Believers are the real Holy Guardians of the Breed and only you and they could ever breed morally acceptable dogs.)
>Your looking for a dog that resembles the GSD, but is no longer a GSD.
I stated exactly what I was looking for. Refer to my exact words, instead of paraphrasing, please.
>Because you've seen people that are impressed by an over
>sized dog shows their ignorance for the breed as well.
Actually, I don't think you have ever met any of those people and don't have a clue what they know. Therefore, any speaking you do about people you never even met is necessarily a product of complete ignorance.
>Reminds me of an attraction at a carnival, everyone knows it's
>weird but no one knows why.
Actually, the GSD-Hyena cross is the one that reminds me of an attraction in a carnival, but I (as opposed to you) did not really come here to argue anyone's else's tastes. If you and they like dogs that look like that, then more power to them.
>The breed is so diluted now it becomes hard to find suitable
>dogs to do any type of work. The type of dog you are looking for
>has even less of the traits a GSD is known to possess and more
>of the health problems. It becomes a sad situation.
Re-read the thread until two things become clear to you:
1) The vast majority of GSDs never do any "work" (and the most of the ones that do, never do any more "work" than jumping over barricades in contests to entertain their owners.) and;
2) I have already seen big, healthy dogs, whether you choose to believe it or not. Sorry if that conflicts with your religion, but it is true.
>Sorry, but I don't feel that I am the one that needs to broaden
>my outlook on GSD's.
Maybe you could use a few lessons in not acting like an asshole and having respect for people you never met and know nothing about. Just a suggestion.
>I know what a GSD is, and what it should be and should do.
And anyone who wants anything different is an evil heretic. Right? And that dogmatic point of view is everyone else's problem, not yours. Right?
>I love all breeds of dogs and appreciate the individual traits
>unique to each breed. I prefer the GSD as an all around dog for
>it's intelligence, size, temperament and working ability. I have owned
>American GSD's, German Show line dogs and working line dogs.
>I prefer working dogs, but I realize that most people just want a nice
>pet and family companion and don't plan on working, competing or
>showing them. A GSD can fill this role as well, they re great family
>dogs just ask anyone on this forum.
Then surely you must realize that all those standards for "working" dogs (i.e., dogs that are trained to jump over a fence) mean just about nothing t
>If an over sized dog that somewhat resembles a GSD is your
>cup of tea then have fun with it.
And, apparently, everyone is entitled to be rather bigoted about other people's taste and preferences.
>However, people breeding dogs without regard to the standard
>have pretty much ruined the breed. That is my problem with your post.
I have news for you. If you go shopping for ANY variety of GSD, the first thing you will hear is that the breed has been ruined by all sorts of breeders -- including those breeders who got confused and thought the standard meant that the dog should have a deformed rear end. So the problem is one of GSDs in general being ruined. (Yeah, I know, you and the few True Believers are the real Holy Guardians of the Breed and only you and they could ever breed morally acceptable dogs.)
>Your looking for a dog that resembles the GSD, but is no longer a GSD.
I stated exactly what I was looking for. Refer to my exact words, instead of paraphrasing, please.
>Because you've seen people that are impressed by an over
>sized dog shows their ignorance for the breed as well.
Actually, I don't think you have ever met any of those people and don't have a clue what they know. Therefore, any speaking you do about people you never even met is necessarily a product of complete ignorance.
>Reminds me of an attraction at a carnival, everyone knows it's
>weird but no one knows why.
Actually, the GSD-Hyena cross is the one that reminds me of an attraction in a carnival, but I (as opposed to you) did not really come here to argue anyone's else's tastes. If you and they like dogs that look like that, then more power to them.
>The breed is so diluted now it becomes hard to find suitable
>dogs to do any type of work. The type of dog you are looking for
>has even less of the traits a GSD is known to possess and more
>of the health problems. It becomes a sad situation.
Re-read the thread until two things become clear to you:
1) The vast majority of GSDs never do any "work" (and the most of the ones that do, never do any more "work" than jumping over barricades in contests to entertain their owners.) and;
2) I have already seen big, healthy dogs, whether you choose to believe it or not. Sorry if that conflicts with your religion, but it is true.
>Sorry, but I don't feel that I am the one that needs to broaden
>my outlook on GSD's.
Maybe you could use a few lessons in not acting like an asshole and having respect for people you never met and know nothing about. Just a suggestion.
>I know what a GSD is, and what it should be and should do.
And anyone who wants anything different is an evil heretic. Right? And that dogmatic point of view is everyone else's problem, not yours. Right?
>I love all breeds of dogs and appreciate the individual traits
>unique to each breed. I prefer the GSD as an all around dog for
>it's intelligence, size, temperament and working ability. I have owned
>American GSD's, German Show line dogs and working line dogs.
>I prefer working dogs, but I realize that most people just want a nice
>pet and family companion and don't plan on working, competing or
>showing them. A GSD can fill this role as well, they re great family
>dogs just ask anyone on this forum.
Then surely you must realize that all those standards for "working" dogs (i.e., dogs that are trained to jump over a fence) mean just about nothing t
by wdog86 on 29 June 2009 - 00:06
>I love all breeds of dogs and appreciate the individual traits
>unique to each breed. I prefer the GSD as an all around dog for
>it's intelligence, size, temperament and working ability. I have owned
>American GSD's, German Show line dogs and working line dogs.
>I prefer working dogs, but I realize that most people just want a nice
>pet and family companion and don't plan on working, competing or
>showing them. A GSD can fill this role as well, they re great family
>dogs just ask anyone on this forum.
Then surely you must realize that all those standards for "working" dogs (i.e., dogs that are trained to jump over a fence) mean just about nothing to them, don't you? In short, your beloved "standards" are of no interest or use to them. Right?
>Go to the link provided above, I'm sure you'll find like minded individuals
>and the type of dog you are looking for. Saphira seems very willing to help
>you. They are nice "designer dogs" as mentioned earlier like "Shepadoodles",
>more mutt than GSD but can be very nice pets never the less. Actually, don't
>rule out "Shepadoodles" they are actually very intelligent good natured dogs.
Yeah, thankfully there are some people like her who can post without being a butthead to other people. But, if I wanted a poodle, I would have put that on the list.
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