Video about crooked (overkill) vets - Page 5

What a very sad story, katjo.  Your last paragraph says it all. I hope that message impacts everyone reading this.

This guy should have a malpractice complaint filed against him with his state's board of veterinary examiners. He would likely be fined and have his license suspended. This is incompetence beyond gouging.

Thank you, Blitzen and Louise. I appreciate the support. And yes, it was a sad situation for one of our boys to go thru, but there was no precursor warning signs that these people would be the way they were.

By all means, I'm not anti-veterinarian just like not all veterinarians are anti-breeder. But goodness-a good, knowledgeable breeder is there for clients if they have problems, need help, tips, suggestions, etc. Had this client came to me and said, "Here's the situation-the pup is acting sick in my opinion, my vet can't find anything wrong via bloodwork, etc. and they're wanting to do surgery-what do I do?" I would've quickly told them to get him outta there and go to another vet for a 2nd opinion. But they didn't give me even the opportunity to do my job for them and help them avoid what ended up happening.

I know of a woman last year who has been to a Cincinnati clinic with a GSD pup. Her female vet told the client that her puppy had a slight(1/4") overbite which warranted corrective jaw elongation surgery (puppy was sold to the client strictly as a pet at a pet price). Appointments for this puppy were being scheduled with a specialist & surgeon at OSU between the owner and her vet, then we were informed of the developments (puppy had passed initial vet checking with flying colors and we had been informed prior to this development the vet had suddenly created over the overbite that he was doing great and the client was thrilled with him). I wanted to know more about the situation since this puppy was produced out of one of my stud dogs, so I contacted the diagnosing vet to get more information. After all, the owner of the male puppy wouldn't tell us his weight (?-seemed awful odd to me). I felt that, if he was 4 mos old and 15lbs, then he probably had legitimate eating problem and we would look into remedying the situation for the owner since we do stand by what we produce, even if its not with our own female and sold as a pet. But I had also done my own research to understand that in juvenile GSDs, its normal for their upper jaw to temporarily outgrow the bottom jaw but come together normal by 14 mos old-this puppy wasn't anywhere close to being mature. When I spoke with the vet and told her I was the owner of ths sire of this particular puppy, she got very cold with me and told me all the things she had told the owner to do with this puppy because he was in such awful shape in her opinion. I asked her if the puppy was in any sort of pain to be warranting such measures as she was telling me and this owner was needed and she said NO, but it was her feeling that he would probably develop problems at a later date if he continued as he was, therefore he needed medical intervention via surgery right away. I asked her if it was affecting his eating and she said she couldn't really say. I asked for the weight of the puppy, and she told me that his last weigh-in done about a week prior to my conversation with her put him at a very nice and healthy 34lbs. I laughed at that point-if the puppy had a serious problem, then he wouldn't have been a hoss of a boy that size at this tender of an age. I asked her if she had bothered to explain to her client that sometimes the upper jaw outgrows the lower jaw but catches up by the time they hit a little over a year old and she wouldn't give me a direct answer. I then asked her how in the world she could make such a 'projection' like that to a client into the future of her puppy when he wasn't anywhere CLOSE to being mature and obviously wasn't showing any outward signs

katjo74,

Check out a similar discussion of overbite and veterinary ignorance:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/171462.html#171606

I leased a 5-year-old daughter of Quino Arminius to breed to my stud ~15 years ago. This bitch was imported as a 14-month-old adult for only about $500--very strange price. Those Germans were not known to sell "cheap" pups from these bloodlines without a reason. the bitch had a correct bite as an adult but tended to have the appearance of a weak underjaw, IMO.

There were a couple of gorgeous pups that I held back from the litter (from her and my male) who had developed considerable overbites (lower canines touching the hard palate) when I finally decided to sell them as older pups as pets for pet prices with no guarantees. The buyers did not remain in contact with me.

I will always wonder if the bites on these little guys would have corrected. I also wonder if the reason that the dam was sold (and was still around) was because she had had an overbite as a younger pup. I probably should have waited on the pups--but, I had recently bought a house and didn't want barking pups to disturb the neighbors.

It's a moot point after so many years. However, I know that there were dentition problems though Quino's brother, Sieger Quando Arminius (who, himself, had lower incisors which were not in correct alignment). The fact that the bitch had a vaginal stricture, had to be bred artificially, and required a c-section/spay from what proved to be the "litter from hell" was enough to make me not want to keep any of the pups. 

OOPs-I didn't realise my post up there got cut off. The vet no longer wanted to speak with me when I questioned her projection ability and how rediculous such was without grounded evidence to make such declarations. And no, the client never contacted me anymore even tho I tried to pursuade her to reconsider her actions toward surgery for the puppy, even offering (tho I wasn't the litter breeder but did own the sire) to replace the male but the client REFUSED. What ended up happening we don't know. He was bought strictly as a pet and would never be shown, titled, taken to an OB class, or even probably trained for the most part. He was to be a companion and he had a wonderful smooth and sweet disposition for such.

But, it's just another case of what a vet says makes the breeder (in this case, responsible stud dog owner) the enemy to the client by the vet's outlandishly rediculous projections made without concrete evidence. And the client didn't apparently have the wisdom and understanding to question such. They look at the DVM after the name and automatically assume they're right and WE are wrong, and it's not always that way.

Thank you for sharing that, Louise-I completely understand the situation! At least zigzag came to somewhere looking for another opinion before taking what the vet said as the gospel truth. It paid off! And it's too bad, too-prior to the vet giving such projections on the puppy I have mentioned with the 'overbite', the client had been thrilled with their boy and had complimented us multiple times about our professionalism and zeal for the breed. Once the vet gave her sudden unexpected opinion and bleak prognosis, we were suddenly the awful ones and nothing was going to change that. And the condition was alleged-we were never provided any concrete evidence that a problem even truly existed from the client, even tho we requested it.  

Oh my-no, I don't think I'd be wanting to keep a puppy from a bitch with such issues, either, personally. 

If we can get ONE potential puppy/dog owner to think about what we're saying here and take it to heart, then I think it's been worthwhile.

Now it's all coming back to me - the reason I no longer breed dogs.

On a positive note, these two situations I've personally shared are the only two stories we have like that, and they span pretty close to a decade apart in occurence. It is not the majority of our experience with clients and vets, and thankfully not or we, too, wouldn't do it anymore. Two experiences in ten years actually isn't too bad, I don't guess.

Louise M. Penery:  I know that there were dentition problems though Quino's brother, Sieger Quando Arminius (who, himself, had lower incisors which were not in correct alignment).

If memory serves, someone saw a frontal photo of Quando's lower incisors and and attempted to "persuade" the SV to remove his Sieger title because of dention that looked roughly like this:

I am now soooo grateful for my vet! Examples: Ivan got a hotspot.  I had been doctoring it and it was getting better then it got raw looking again on Monday, I called to make an appointment but no openings until Friday (one drawback always busy). I had it about better by Friday but decided to keep the appointment. She spent about 15 minutes with me chit chatting hotspots. His coat is good, very minimal itching so we decided he got an irritation from something (most likely Miss Xtra biting him), then what she recommends to do for them etc.She trimmed the hair more with clippers. As I went to the counter to pay she said "you don't owe me anything for that". I said "are you sure"? Yup and off she went. How kool is that!! Four years ago she opperated on my "heart dog" for a spleenatic tumor. Major surgery that I was allowed to stay by his side the whole time and spent the night with him in her clinic. I ended up loosing my boy to a bloodclot a few days post op. I didn't get a bill for a couple of weeks and it was for about $800.00. I think I am very lucky after reading some of these vet gouging stories...

Your vet is a great one, Trailrider. You are lucky indeed. I worked as a tech for around 15 years and can count on one hand the number of clients I saw leave the exam room with no charge.  Some had to pay to get in .