Male c names please! - Page 5

mvf     NO COLOR DOESNT MATTER AT ALL    SHE COULD TRAIN AN ALLIGATOR     BUT I THINK ITS FUN TO GUESS.....

AND I THINK YOU HAVE MADE A GOOD GUESS........

Ahh, okay, I get it now! Thank you, MVF, sorry if I sounded confrontational, I meant to be conversational.

You can breed agouti out pretty easily as it is dominant.  But then you lose all that great genetic stock.  So I guess we agree here -- breeding for color is  limiting and surely must decay the value of the dogs over time.

As far as I know, no one has actually created the mathematical model of the gsd breeding pool and simulated it.  We might be able to come to some conclusions about just how damaging the color focus in the showring is to the dogs aptitudes.  One thing I have recently realized is that the reason it is so hard to hold onto quality (show or working) is that gsd's are actually quite a bit  better than the average wolf/dog genetic package, so there is a lot of absolute regression to the mean.  That means that in average breeds not being attentive to quality (or focusing on silly things like color or coat) does not do as much harm as in breeds that have, in fact, succeeded in bringing their average way up such as gsd's.  It is because of our success that focusing on color in the showring is so bad for us.

GSD's are like 6'10" basketball players.  if they don't take care in picking tall breeding partners, their kids will surely be shorter than they.  Or like Ph.D. scientists -- even if you breed them together their progeny are likely to regress a lot and not achieve their parents standards.  Two average people don't face regression to the mean, as do two average dogs.  It can be statistically said that if the average pup in the litter actually improves the parents, the parents aren't that good.  But if the average pup fails to reach the lesser of the parents, the parents are very good.  (On average.)

If you steer clear of a lot of good working sable and black dogs for your showdogs, then you lose so much that it is possible that within a few generations you create a vastly inferior breed.  That's what a lot of people are saying they see when showdogs go to work.  One problem is that the working dogs are being selected for so much drive that they are not easily placed as pets, and they may even take too long to calm down enough to learn.

Too bad we don't have great tests for adults that would be used like the ZW to score breeding potential.  SchH, HGH, and FH will have to do.

I was not offended, beetree.  Sorry if I sounded as if I was.  And sorry for carrying on so long in my last email!

I submitted CASSIUS vom Bullinger.

HopeTracy likes it. He shall be entered in a show in the Baby Puppy class next Saturday, then shipped to ME. I can hardly wait!

SS

My boy is Cain. :]

But I liked Corbi and Castro. They were his great grandparents.

But there's my two cents.

-Emily.

MVF, no problem here! I only asked you the question because I respect your knowledge. Thanks for taking the time to go into all the detail, really!

I believe I have heard something before about having two Ph.d parents does not guarantee a Ph.d kid, one reason designer DNA sperm or egg donors will not work if your goal is to produce the next Einstein.

I remember the Boxer breeding thread dilemma as well, and one would think the judges would embrace the genetic diversity available in the GSD where color is concerned, but such is not the reality.

I certainly cannot blame her, then, if a change is in the air, when  a life is just so long, and one has a wish for success.

Whatever the color of the new "c" pup, I send only my best wishes to Shelly.

Yahhh, Cujo.  I love that name lol

Shelley: what's the breeding on Cassius?  The Bullinger website is not clear about the C litter (2nd time around).  THANKS.

Shelley a showline? Good for you!