"Tiffany / Wal-Mart" breeding - Page 5

Do Right, if you like, I will sell you one for $2000 with all the guarantees you requested.  You will pay more than twice as much as what I ask, and lose the additional guarantees I offer against additional genetic defects beyond your request.  The pups are out of a litter sister to a top WUSV competitor AND producer,  sired by a good producing, powerful V-rated SchH3 kkl1 dog.  But you can still give me $2000 IF YOU WANT, I'm all for it, LOL.

Veronica

PS.  If the owner requires the guarantee be fulfilled, I do NOT ask for the dog to be returned to me from a safe and loving home.  Why would I want to do that to a family?  SOME breeders do not actually require the return of the dog, even if they state that they do on their contract.  The clause is there to keep unscrupulous people from taking advantage of them. 

Veronica

Alaska Veronica:  As I wrote you many months ago, IF I get another dog, it will have a good chance of coming from you.  Especially if you come up with that show line sable that we discussed, and I will give you the 2 grand, providing you meet my stated guarantee requests. 

Awwww...Thanks Do right....I would have the warm fuzzies, except for the sable showline dog request...I don't know how I'm going to get that out of my working lines!  How about a nice drivey sable pup whose dad is V rated though he is NOT showlines? 

I say let people buy what they want. There is a German Shepherd out there for a lot of needs, we shouldn't confine it all to one standard. Then everybody's happy. For a family pet, if $300 dollars is all you're going to spend, then by all means do so (just remember you're probably not going to get a *very* responsible breeder charging that much. Maybe $800, but titles excluded, a good breeder should at least do health testing, hips, xray, etc. which isn't cheap). People who pay a lot of money for a dog should theoretically be doing so because they want that particular lines, they know what they're buying, etc.

Granted, I think $1500 and up is too much for an untested puppy.

Very nice thread!!!  And if anyone is interested, I still have 5 (maybe only 3) left of my litter of 11 to sell!  LOL

I have had my pups listed for $650.  I felt this was a reasonable price.  And ONE of my goals is to privide a quality animals to the "average" person.  All of my dogs are vet checked, UTD on all vaccinations, microchipped before they every leave my home, wormed, started in training, housebroken, socialized to just about every situation I can think of, live indoors/outdoors (house manners)..... the list goes on.  If I still have a litter after 5 mo, I start their SchH Training.  But my price remains the same.  I don't raise the price simply because I have done all this work with them.  Granted, out of this litter, I had 2 little girls that would track off the chart, but not really insterested in doing any type of bitework.  NONE showed any weak nerves!!!  Not a bad litter! But yet, here I sit with 5 pups @ almost 10 months of age.  WHY????  Because MOST think that if you don't have a dog that comes from OFA parents and titles, they are crap!!!  The sire of my litter is working toward his BH (last I head from his owner), the Dam is training for SAR - but no titles yet.  Both parents have been x-rayed, and I have statements from my vet with his assment (both very good).  I do not OFA for personal reasons to long to go into here, but I do explain it to prospective buyers.  I am, however, thinking seriously about going to Penn-Hip.  The sire and dam on the dam's side were both Service dogs and merely have their CGC.  The Sire on the Sire's side is a working patrol dog in KY, that is the reason for no titles on him.  (I've spoken personally to his breeder)  To follow is an assment from a trainer on a pup I sold from this litter.  I sold to a guy out of NJ, who also bought a pup from the trainer.

"Dear Chrissy,
I had an opportunity to see a six month black bitch evaluated for working/sport. 

The person doing the evaluation has trained working dogs  for the past 30 years 

and is a breeder of some of the nicest Dobes in the US. 

Your puppy really represented herself outstandingly.
She has EXCELLENT nerve, very good prey, and strong controlled aggression. 

This bitch has a very nice head with excellent bone. Her drives are not just good but very self confident. 

This was her first time doing any formal assessment away from home the owner told me. 

I told him I will take this bitch in a minute if he wants to let her go. 

He laughed as he is a police officer and knows what he has.

Another K9 officer was present and felt the bitch could easily become a patrol dog 

if she continues with her growth and development.
Congratulations on breeding a very nice puppy bitch!
                                Cliff"

To me, this is the kind of thing that every breeder should love to hear!!!  

Cliff told me personally that he would of actually picked MY puppy bitch over his own!

Just my 2 cents worth!

Ladywolf, you can a-stamp your dog at 12 months old through the SV a-stamp system. In the US the WDA and USA offer it. Putting up with crap from governing bodies that may screw up results is part of breeding. At least with the OFA you have the option to redo the x-rays and ask for another evaluation. Not so easy with the SV and hardly successful. You can also OVC a dog through Canada or as you stated, Penn-Hip it. Whatever system you go with, they all have their glitches and none of them are perfect. With OVC I believe you can do it at 18 months (not sure), Penn-Hipp claims to be correct as early as 4 months, and SV at 12 months, so you do not have to wait so long as with OFA. If you want to breed, you have to put personal reasons aside and give the puppy buyers something tangible they can go by. Otherwise you need to accept that the puppy buyer will pass on you and go where dogs have been properly sreened. The current age you can prescreen these pups at 6 months, by which time the elbows have properly fused and then sell the individual pup with these prescreens, which is never a guarantee for a passing grade, but at least about a 90% chance. Make sure each dogs particulars are put in the x-rays, such as name, DoB, chip#, vet info and breeder info. If your vet does not have digital x-ray, have them put two films into each cassette, one stays with the dog, one with you. K9 handlers are not concerned about a dogs background, only about the dog at hand if the screens are ok they will be happy to take a dog whose parents have not been screened. A breeder will not likely consider dogs from you because you have broken the information chain. They in turn would look irresponsible and amateur if they should ever breed with dogs that do not have a proper certification, or dogs that lack such a certification in the background, be it 2 or 3 generations back. Your personal issues re OFA affects your lines down the road and IMO is not very well thought through. Puppy buyers have to rely on your personal reckord keeping while several perfectly good systems are in place. Most people would smell a rat here and usually rightfully so. Just because that may not apply to you does not mean much, too many people out there who talk pretty and have nothing to actually back up the talk. It sounds like an excuse. Keeping a pup at the same price as its value has increased by maturity and training also tells me that you are in fact rather insecure about what you produce and do not attach the necessary value to your dogs. How can a buyer attach value to a puppy they are supposed to buy from you then? That insecurity shines through and the puppy buyers notice and stays away. Many people may argue that $650 is already steep for pups out of untitled, unscreened parents. I beg to differ. The quality of pup is not ALONE determined by the quality of parents, it is also very much determined by the quality of how a litter is raised. Never undervalue that. As a breeder and as a buyer.

What stopped Yvette's friend from waiting another year to save up another $600? Or wait two more years so that he would also have money put aside for vet bills etc... does not fit into the impatient 'must have now' or fast-food mentality when it comes to just about everything these days. Some things still have value attached to them today though. I am pretty sure that when Friend proposed to his wife he waited long enough til he had the funds for that ring from Tiffany's or the next best thing to it, instead of going with the Walmart Wedding Ring Special. As a breeder and seller I want to see that same value attached to any dog I place in the care of another person. Just how much does Friend actually value this new dog of his? Though he expects it to be the loyal trusted lifetime companion!
Yvette, if your Friend was willing to 'settle' for that $200 pup, then $600 was already more than he was really willing to spend. He just did not want to tell you. He is down in the dumps, wanted, no needed some company, and now, no times to waste. But not just any company, had to be special, a certain breed, not just any dog. One 'trophy' lost, another needs to fill the void now. Ordinary will not do. And all that on a shoe-string-budget. In that price range he should have realistically considered a rescue. Lots of nice rescues on the Aussie Rescue page, even pups. The rescue though probably did not match the image here. Buy cheap, make it look big. After all, qiuality pups from that breed do cost 1200 don't they. No one can tell that that is only a 200 buck pup. Hopefully...
Two or three hundred dollars for a pup these days? People, this is not the 80's any more. What do you get for a couple of hundred bucks these days: fill the tank of your big gas guzzling truck a couple of times, maybe three. Get an Ipod, an X-box. Oops wait, can't get an X-box for that, but less than half a dozen games for it. That daily tall Starbucks Latte for about two months, a pack a day habit for about a month. What I buy for a couple if hundred bucks today I do not expect to last. That is another part of the fast-food-society we live in today. The throw-away society. The Ipod is broke, it is not sent in to be fixed, it is thrown out. Unless I bought an extended warranty I do not expect the store to replace it. Funny how dog buyers automatically expect that though. No wonder because so many other people harp on that they should expect warranties up the yingyang without doing anything extra for it, like PAY for it.

When it comes to buying dogs a lot of people simply do not have their priorities right... Starting with vague and often anonymous inquires, to unrealistic expectations, to certain must haves such as unrealistic guaratees. Living beings folks! How can they POSSIBLY come with any warranty? That is wishful thinking, and goes beyond unrealstic. Price also have very unrealistic expectations attached to it. Value in the pup does not come from just the quality of the parents but also the quality of care that goes into raising the litter. Why is it that so many good dogs make it over the big pond and the quality is simply not being maintained? Often already with the very next generation? Has nothing to do with no access to SchH clubs for titling, or SV style shows, or KKLs. Has everything to do with doing things superficially, not thought out, not proviging quality care, being ignorant to key factors of raising a litter well.
In terms of prices IMO any pup under $1000 means the buyer will never attach the value on their dog that I would like to see them do. If the buyer does not have that money now then the buyer should wait and save up for it. They will save up for that big screen LCD TV, but not for a pup? Reality is such that the buyer who does not have $1000 today will most likely not have it next year either. The realistic buyer will save before he shops and only once he has the funds he needs for the purchase will he go out and look in earnest and then learn about the differences of what is being offered in that price range til an educated decidion is made. The impulse buyer goes to the shop, buys the cheapest big screen TV he can find, hold off on guarantees and put it on his credit card, and when it breaks down he sulks and whines because it did so before it was paid off and now it has to be thrown out. The $200 puppy will meet that same fate. Do you really think that buyer will spend more on his pup in vet bills than he paid for the pup? Absolutely not! These are the pups that end up at the shelters. Sick and neglected, poorly raised and cared for and disgarded at the first sign of inconvenience. I would never sell a pup at that price. Even 600 bucks. A thousand makes a person think before a purchase and think again when it needs fixing. Its too valuable to just toss.
In turn, as a seller I need to provide a good value with the pup that I am selling to match that price/value scenario. That means choosing the best parents, doing the best I can in raising it, representing the pup properly to the buyer. Value also includes my breeder/seller experience and support, which can only go so far. If the overall value matches the purchase it will be a satisfying experience for both buyer and seller. 

I would not want to purchase a pup from someone who prices it high so that I won't "toss it".  It is an honorable sentimentality, however, what it actually is, is putting "extra" bucks into the pocket of the breeder/seller, period.  There are millions of people who toss aside things that cost over a thousand dollars all of the time, including pets.   Just look at the news recently concerning the football player, Michael Vick, who alledgedly is participating in dog fighting on a large scale.  Does anyone think that he is using dogs for his fighting pleasure, betting pleasure, and using 50 dollar dogs?  I doubt it.  I "bet" he is using dogs he paid well over a thousand dollars for.

D.H.:  I respect you and do not want to get into a pissing contest with you, because I will lose.  It is like the Republicans and Democrats arguing.  A Replublican can not win because the Democrat will always "look" better because they use compassion, feelings and goody-goody language to argue with.  Replublicans use "tough love" arguments.  Tough love arguments, well, sound tough, therefore sound mean.

Same thing with this argument.  If you expect someone to save for three years so they can get a high priced GSD, yet you admit that most who don't have the money now, will not have it next year or the year after, then what you are in effect saying is the same elistist things I hear all of the time from most breeders on this site.  "If you can't afford a properly trained and bred GSD, then get a lesser dog at the dog pound", and I don't necessarily disagree with getting dogs from the pounds as they need love and homes more than my or your pups.  However, why can't the GSD, as fine a companion as it is, be enjoyed by those who do not have the funds or means to buy these $1500.00 dogs advertised all over here?  Breeders here want 800 to a thousand for their failures (read misfits).  You know, the pups who are not breeding quality, or working quality or title quality.  I see dogs advertised on this site all of the time with soft ears, "almost titled" (we know what that means when it is up for sale), incorrect testicles, etc.  Why are they not for sale for 2 or 3 hundred?

Yes, I want guarantees.  If you buy a new car, are you going to expect and want a guarantee.  Probably for five or ten years.  And it has a thousand moving parts and is subject to your poor driving habits, bad roads, etc.  But if it has problems, we want satisfaction, even if our idiot teenager is peeling the tires with it or driving over the curbs.  We will say that the car "never was right" and is defective, and expect satisfaction.  If you are going to sell me a pup and say that it is of impecable breeding, of tested and certified parentage, from a tested and proven lineage.  Then why on earth can you not guarantee me that in three years from now, if this dog has HD or Epilepsy, I can not get "satisfaction"?  I understand that it is a living thing, but hey, that is the cost of doing business.  Stand behind your product.  That is what a litter of puppies is, a "product" produced by you, advertised by you, and sold by you.  Stand behind your product whether it is a car, a widget or a puppy.

P.S.  Before someone yells at me for calling their precious dog a "misfit" because he/she is not prefect.  Be advised, I love all dogs, none are perfect and I am a misfit myself.