steve lino - Page 5

My pleasure mate thought you might appreciate it Ed -;)

just seems strange to me that the country that went were no man had gone before, broke new frontiers, hailed their heroes is so preoccupied with belittling some oustanding achievements. Maybe some posters are to young to remember or is it that they lack the manners and respect that previous generations had.

 The man did well applaud him.

cheers from Gippsland.

I must be one confused Yank because I don't see where anything on this thread was critical of Steve.  I took the discussion on what constitutes training as more broadbased rather then directed at any one person.

But thank you for joining the board just to set us on the right path!

Anyways to get back to the op. 

Mark are you asking about working with him in reference to buying or training a dog?  If buying it looks like he has plenty of his pups owners on the forum and you should be able to get some idea of what he is producing and how happy people may or may not be there from there.  It should be a starting place at any rate.

If by working you mean training with him, I'm not sure if he is actively training any more.  Before you spend a lot of time reserarching that you might want to shoot him an email and find out.

dominik,

I'm sure you can tell by now that I have nothing but the utmost respect for Steve. As I stated before, I have spent a great deal of time in the company of the Linos and am always a captive audience when they talk dogs....or anything else for that matter. Both Steve and Dee have more experience than I can ever hope to obtain. They've made a life of out of their love of the GSD (and a few MIn Pins too).  Their stories about their experiences in the sport are endless and fascinating. It's a shame the people here can't enjoy them as I have. Steve has made a mark in the GSD world that I am sure will endure long after he is gone. Some people may call me an ass kisser for posting this, but my love for the Linos is out of pure respect and admiration and has nothing to do with any ass kissing. His accomplishments speak for themselves. Anyone who tries to detract from that, is simply jealous. JMO.

I can't for the life of me see where anyone is sounding jealous of this man.

If nothing else he's getting some good advertising for his website and dogs.

Thats just it, no one is jealous of Steve.  That's always been the battle cry mantra though.  Your correct he's getting tons of exposure here and I'm sure more than a couple new members on his forum.  Good for him.

It was a general statementt to say that anyone who tried to detract from what he has done in the breed and sport, was just jealous. It wasn't meant to say anyone on here was jealous. I guess it just came off sounding like that.

Betty brought up whether or not he is still actively training and I can say that he's not doing much training anymore. He has a bad back and he really can't train like he did. But if you need training advice he is a great source for that. His wife Dee does the obedience classes they still hold. She was a top level competitor herself in SchH and she also competed in AKC obedience with her Min Pins.

well for 90% of the rest of the people the helper is most defineatly the one training the dog in bitework.  So what you're trying to tell me, is that let's say i'm a helper and TD.  We have 10-15 people at club every week and then sporadically during the week.  Every week for 2 years I do all the bitework for their dogs.  They hang on the end of the leash, do what I say, and I work the dog.  I only have my ONE dog that I personally own.  in our spring trial 4 of those people title dogs, I haven't, I have nobody to do bitework with my dog, but myself and we're a little behind.  In a fall trial 2 of those previous 4 get another title in addition to 3 others and I finally do as well.  Are you trying to say I've only trained ONE dog??By my estimation there are 7 other dogs titled and 9 titles between them that NEVER would have happened if the TD wasn't training the dogs.  Like I said before, its a TEAM effort, and both are training.  I don't know of too many clubs that are much differnt than that scenerio

Have you been around any newbies lately, most don't even know how to play with their dog, let alone develope a grip or stimulate drive, I see more re-training done by helpers than actual training done by the owners.  Experienced handlers usually work with helpers they trust to read and train their dog correctly, meaning they trust their training of.  I don't care if you have the best laid plan in the world, things change in an instant out on the training field, and the helper has to read the behaviors the dog is giving and deviate from that plan, all the talking in the world doesn't get a dog trained, the helper reading and rewarding, thus TRAINING your dog, is what gets it done.  Like I said before, it takes two to train these dogs to any appreciable level.  It's a rare handler and rare dog that go it alone

zdog

Like I said before, there are a lot of people that are posts on the end of the leash, But that doesn't constitute 100 % of the training.  You are absolutely right in the fact that no man can do the protection work alone.  Sure, I can go out there and do the blinds as an obedience exercise.  I can do an escape with the dog.  I can do a hold and bark with the dog.  I sure as hell can't do a call out of the blind by myself.  So yes, you are correct in thinking that the helper is a major role in the protection phase. 

Yes, there are people out there that are clueless as hell!  Does your TD do all of their obedience and tracking for them?  I know you said most of the clubs you have seen are like this, but not in my experience.  Most of the clubs I have been to have one, maybe two, of these posts in their clubs.  Most clubs wont take on a handful of newbies.  Maybe you are hand feeding these people too much.  Maybe you should, instead of telling them what you are going to do,  askthem what you should do.  How else are these people going to advance in the sport?  If they don't ever learn, you will continuously have to wipe their behinds.  Maybe your TD isn't doing that great of a job.  Don't these people get any education?  When I first started in SCH,  I shut my mouth and soaked in everything I could.  I asked questions if I needed an answer.  Most of the time, it was a question of why.  My TD would point me in the right direction with articles, videos, books, and seminars.  When I got my BH with that first dog at 15 months, the first person I thanked was that TD.  He was always there, but I can't say he trained my dog.  He schooled me!  Maybe I should have called all the seminar instructors I watched on the tapes.  They were a big help too!

I guess all I am saying, is that, yes the TD does deserve a great amount of credit.  Does he deserve the title I recieve on my dog?  I think not.  True, I am not standing there like an oak tree waiting to get my next bit of instruction.  Does he deserve a lot of the points I recieve in the protection phase?  Undoubtedly!    Does he deserve a cold beer after each training day?  Without question!  Do I deserve a twelve pack every time my dog knocks him on his ace?  FOR SURE!

I've never brought anything into the equation other than bitework, why OB and tracking keep coming up I don't know I never said they trained the dogs in those disciplines,  BUT IN BITEWORK the helper is training your dog, good or bad, right timing or wrong, poor presentation or good, defense or prey, hectic on the sleeve or calm, pressure into the bite or fight, etc, is ALL taught by the helper, they guy with the sleeve, independant from the handler.  That has been my freaking point the entire time.

I've never said they deserve the title that a dog earns, would that dog have a title without them, I would bet most times it wouldn't.  My point has always been, that just because you aren't the handler or owner of the dog, does not mean you have aren't training the dog.  Just because a TD/helper in most clubs is in front of 20-40 dogs an afternoon, but only has one or 2 of his own does NOT mean he only trains 2 dogs.  So I guess what some of you are saying is that the person that is in front of 20-40 dogs per day on the weekend with only 2 of his own, trains as many dogs as the person that shows up with 2 dogs????? OK