MSNBC vote on Spay/Neuter - Page 5

I guess as this is supposed to be a "Free Country" shouldn't people vote no simply because it is against the "FREE" part of what a lot of people have died for????

sueincc,  In your opinion yes I am part of the problem,  In mine I am not,  I take all the neccesary precautions for health, temperament, and otherwise,  and I go beyond responsible when it comes to our pups/dogs and contracts,  I am honest with folks,  I don't lie to them, I don't cheat them, I treat our buyers with respect, and treat them the way I would wish to be treated as well.  I try to apply the same thing here but words are hard to convey in a manner that are understood and not taken out of context.    Again I do respect your opinion on the issue just don't agree with KKL and Titles being the end all and only entitlement for breeding.   I say this respectfully  and with no malice toward you. 

I beleive that it should apply to all,  but don't see that from this board.  and that is just my perspective and admitedly it could be somewhat warped right now,  LOL

Echo,

I don't think you realize how you bring much of this on yourself. You are very egotistical and self righteous. You are very hypocritical with your "savior of all dogs" attitude VS your breeding practices.

I took the time to look at your web-sight and breeding contract. One of the first things on your contract page (in bold-face) is that you sell your dogs with full registration. Then you have all these stipulations in your contract. We all know that dog contracts are virtually useless.  If you sold a dog to someone across the country and they breed it outside of what you want, do you really expect us to believe you are going to travel across the country for a small- claims lawsuit? Would you go try to steal the dog back?The only way you can guarantee dogs from your breeding program will not be bred is to alter them before delivery. That's the only way. The next best thing is to withold registration until the dogs recieve titles or hip certs that fit your goals. Even then you cannot guarantee these dogs will not be bred.

So you sell non-titled dogs ( I don't necessarily disagree with that they are not the end-all be-all but a non-titled dog I would breed to is defiantly not what you are producing) with full registration and then try to tell people what they can do with there dogs? Who do you think you are? If I pay for a dog with full registration I am going to do with it what I want. If I put a Sch 3 on a dog from your breeding and it came back with OFA fair hips you would not deem that dog "breed worthy"? If it was a dog I deemed breed worthy I would tell you to piss off.

Good breeders have a specific goal for there breeding program. The toughest bad-ass dogs, top level competition, conformation, etc. Most breeders try to breed for there own impression on what the perfect dog is. I do not see what your breeding vision is. From what I take from your web-sight your main goal for breeding is dogs that can be a part of the family and sleep on the couch. That is a pet dog. So why can you breed pet dogs but other people can't. What is it about you that makes you so much better than anybody else who is breeding pet dogs? By selling dogs with full registration how can you be sure that dogs from your breeding program will not be bred and those pups not end up in bad situation or in shelters? You can't. So are you really part of the problem, part of the solution, or a little of both.

I do not think your a bad person. I admire your rescue efforts. I think your intentions are in the right place. There are specific reasons people feel the need to "save the world" and attempt to control things they can not control. My suggestion to you is get off your high horse, stop playing the victim, and look inside yourself to see why people have the impression of you that they do.  The only thing in this world we can control is ourselves.

GARD,  Very well written,  and all I can say in response is so far so good,  Our contracts have never been breached yet,  Not to say they would not someday but when it does YES I will do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to make that first person a very good example.  With the help of the Microchips we have been able to help 2 of our owners recover they're dogs (both were out of town and had dog sitters and the dog got loose from the sitter)  Both were recovered because of the chip !!!   

We have a female pup of ours(we sold) showing the end of this month,  I can't wait to see how she does.  We have some pups we have here and some we have sold going up for BH's this fall (when they are old enough)  We have some preparing for Hip/Elbow Xrays soon as well.

All I can say about your response to "it's my dog I'll do what I want piss off"  is I don't HAVE to sell anyone a dog !!  So far the NO shipping thing has been a good deal,  I think I will be sticking to that,  it works for  me and that's all it has to work for...

The reason you posted...  I'll bet that you did not read my defenition of PET did you,  maybe you would not hold such destain for me if you had,  it's obvious that alot of the problem with the posters lately is perception and defenition.  My PET is the MUTT down the road that looks like a lab beagle mix,  then breeding the poodle great dane x next door...THOSE ARE THE DOGS I'M TALKING ABOUT,  I'M NOT CONDEMING ANYONE ON HERE BREEDING THEY'RE UNTITLED UNKKL DOGS,  Sorry for yelling but shit I hope someone heard it this time !

GARD  did you miss the fact that we have dogs in training for K-9 and detection work,  one dog in therapy,  another getting ready to certify with delta, and one in SAR training, another just rescently purchased for SAR ??  Did you miss all that or just CHOOSE not to post it,  but rather chose to post the Family part ?

Yes I do breed with the specific goal of producing a dog that CAN and WILL do the work and STILL come home and be a FAMILY MEMBER.  and what's wrong with that description per the founder ?????

Echo, It's ironic that you would bring up Captain Max, the founder of the breed, the same person who wanted his breed to be tested & proven before being bred.  Perhaps you are being purposely obtuse to defind a postion that is undefendable  If you really care about GSD's as you say, you'll stop what you are doing.  Do the teachings of those who have gone before you mean nothing to you?

i don't even approve of some of the spay /neuter aggreements that some breeders insist on with puppy sales.  if the dog has a glaring fault, then obviously a spay /neuter aggreement would be in order.  most dogs, however, cannot or shouldnot be evaluated as an 8 week old puppy.  i would most definately oppose laws that would allow the state to determine what can or cannot be bred.  mandatory spay/neuter regulations ASSUME that all dogs are not worthy of breeding.  we know this is not true.  there are some dogs of each breed that it would be a shame not to breed as they truly have something to offer.  as someone else pointed out.......if all the law abiding and responsible folks follow the laws and neuter their dogs, the only folks doing the breeding would be the folks who buck the law and probably have crap dogs that don't deserve to be bred.  what then?????  people just need to be responsible and ask themselves some very hard questions before putting 2 dogs together.

pjp

OH YESS!! NO MORE" DESIGNER DOGS!" That just might be enough to persuade me to change my vote to 'yes'!   

Nothing gets my dander up more than these "labradoodles' and 'cockapoos' that are being sold for BIG BUCKS!  And the ones that don't have the right coats wind up in the pound at the tender age of a couple of days old...