The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 43

If I had been breeding for 30 years and could not produce one video of a dog I had produced working I would not start a thread like this..
Really you think the peds I posted were just like your breeding? Lets see it then :). Just so we are clear almost all the peds I posted have more then one line breeding going on and it is all on key individuals. Perhaps the 3-4 is not as tight as I like but you can see a consistent line breeding strategy if you look into the peds specifically in the Staatmachts dog.

This thread is about character. No work = no character. I showed a dog capable of exceptional work who I have seen in person.

Once again I will post vids of my dogs working and you post vids of yours. Dont worry I will even agree to do no bitework just obedience. Also I have not bred them as they have not proven themselves worthy of that. I have alreadt washed out several dogs before them as well. Unless they prove themselves through the training and work to be of strong character I wont be breeding them. I find weak dogs distasteful to live with and would prefer to not inflict that on others. Any idiot can breed dogs it means nothing.

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Vk- not a problem, my feelings are not that easily hurt :). Joan I concur with the above and I hope your right.  Im not quite certain of stats regarding GSDs going to kennels vs. in the past but I'm willing to bet the mentality today is to quit when the going gets tough.  If I talk about drives/nerves or even my dog in general many of my friends look at me like I have 5 heads.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2194580-dejuco-titus

Templar with ped like this you are on the right track and at the right address. As far as  today's soft society goes,... society is not made tough by higher crime. I am talking about being tough as far as discipline, and responsibility to one self and others goes,  and resistance and resilience  to adversities goes and rugged individualism. As far as tough dogs  being "bad ass" and hard to handle I am not talking about hard to  handle because they are hard  to train or dangerous that is the trouble with word tough. By tough dog I mean dog who will not give up in front of danger or adversity - same as his master.  But GSD was not created for people who can not properly command or properly   correct  dog because they afraid to. Today busybodies   call cops on people because they walk on a street with a dog with choker and not alone pinch collar.  GSD was created and developed by tough Germans which were not anything like Schultz in Hogan's heroes. the were bred to be  a command dog which means that the dog lived from command to command and even play time and free time   for dog to do what he wants to do was done  on a command. that is strictly against nature of today's society in general not just in today USA but also ( but not as much) in today's Germany who is getting in extreme overboard about softening the sport of SchH or IPO and do not let me start about ridiculous regulations by AR groups which are here not to benefit the dog but to make ownership so difficult that it will virtually disappear.  I my early days I lived in woods in minus 45*F for several months. Now er have jurisdictions which will shot down a kennel whose temperatures are not above 70*F and below 80*F 24/7/365...or something like that. And as far as relationship of a dog owner/trainer and  a dog?  Now the dog is more often then not looked up on by many as an equal partner and wording leadership position of the handler is looked up on as term from knuckle-dragging troglodyte   and thus for reasons like that and others on many fronts the GSD  is turned in an animal with a personality of a lamb. Why? Because society demands that. That is why! Soft society and gentle society  demands soft and gentle push over dogs. Temperament of a dog ( in general terms) would has hard time to be accepted y society of today (in general terms) . That has nothing to do with how dangerous or hard to handle  the breed  is.I am talking sme dog then and now.  If you see decline in a breed than it is because there is no demand enough for dog of different type. I can produce tough dogs - same tough dogs as 30- 50 years ago   and I still do, but people do not want them or if thety do they do not getting that they need to train them in discipline with similar attitude  of old Germans who created them. Such dogs  are harder and harder to sell for real and often for imaginary reasons.

  Today I got call from  from a potential client who said that he talked to scores of people who told him that working dogs are hard to  handle and he should get show dog instead because they  are much softer and gentler and asked me if I can defend working dogs as a dog for family and companionship. So, as you can imagine, I did. 

 Prager Hans

 

 

An other thing I noticed  ,  IPO.ringsport.KNPV PSA etc too many exercises are in prey

there no real defense exercises with REAL pressure  testing the dogs, thats why breeders worlwide

looking for these  bloodlines with a lot of prey drive there is no balance between prey and defense this days

in GSD. If I look to the many youtube videos most of this exercises are in prey drive,and people think

it is protection   IT ISN,T  99 percent is prey( sleeve.suit)  you don,t see real serious defense work this days

testing dogs (IPO.KNPV,ringsport.PSA) . 

 

Agree with Pager good post.

 In KNPV this moment we have some very good tough serious  bloodlines for the most people

this dogs are too hard and tough to handle  and cost a lot of time to title/certificate  ,today people don,t have the  patient

anymore so the choise is the more easy bloodlines less time to title/certificate  them after this and they take an other dog.

LE police .militay handlers also most of  them can not handle  the more serious dogs what they  went is a

easy dog social and crazy for toys and balls(more easy to train ) .... of course there will be always  exceptions

why can't a prey dog be a good, protection dog?

 

i know some prey dogs that will tear you a new one just for fun, i think the defensive dog will quit before the prey dog.

 

i am very glad that breeders had enough sense to breed away from defensive dogs which are a pretty useless animal.

 

police and millitary have thankfully realised, albeit late, they have the bettr dog in the prey dog.

 

you have said you have seen 1000's of prey dogs on youtube, show me a good defensive dog. might be a reason you see so few.

 

 

@VK

 

I don,t say a prey dog can not be a good protection dog I say there is no balance there are many

high prey drives dogs who are lacking natural defense .

 

there are 10000,s the  same videos this is what I mean.

I  think( hope)  you realy know yourself  what real defense is .

 

 

 

 

i think i have a good idea what real defense is, do you have a good idea what it is like trying to peel a loaded prey dog off.

 

Yes I also know  high prey drives dogs who can,t stand  REAL serious resistance  and pressure.

and who can,t  stay realy  in the fight.

Someone made the comment that 2-2 inbreeding is what caused problem in SL.  I gave an example of Burga vom Haus Himpel as a female that I would start a breeding program with. Why? Partially because she was inbred 2-2 on arguably not only one of the greatest GS to ever live( in structure/temperament/producing), Bernd v Lierberg, but also one of the most successful breedings ever done with the B litter Lierberg, and subsequently 3 or 4 repeat breedings that also produced world class dogs. If you are going to inbreed on a dog, that dog should be as close to perfection as possible both genetically and phenotypically. Bernd fit the bill.   

Burga produced Held vRitterberg who had an immense impact in producing superb working stock and good structure, he was foundation dog behind some of great DDR dogs as well as great Czech dogs, he even produced a Seigren in conformation for the structure lovers. 

My point is tight linebreeding or inbreeding is not the foundation of the SL dogs of today, this is a misnomer, BACKMASSING on the same genetics for over 10 to 15 generations is the reason these dogs are where they are today. There is a big difference in the two concepts.