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by Mackenzie on 10 February 2009 - 20:02
Hello David
I am pleased to see that you are entering the discussion once again.
I quite agree with what you have said about the breeding faults on the other side. The same faults were there when I first came into the breed in 1970. They have done very little about rectifying anything. However, we must understand that they will have novice people and newcomers to the breed and I expect that because they are unaware they accept blindly as acceptable the dogs that they see winning when they go to a show. In their situation they will accept that the judge knows best. I had the same experience at first. However, thanks to a photo that I saw at a party made up of breeders and All Rounder judges I saw the light. When I declared in a loud voice that that was the dog for me I received a lot of critism because I was a novice and lacked experience. I was told by breeders and judges alike that the dog was rubbish. I later learnt that the dog I liked so much was Marko v Cellerland. The point is that unless we go about educationing the other side in the right way we are never going to see eye to eye. It would take a while because some of the less experienced people on the other side will have one or two dogs already. We cannot ask them to get rid of them because they will have feelings for them, but, we can go some way to getting them, in time, to come to our side. Perhaps when they want their next dog for example.
Unfortunately, the German faction has butted heads with the KC too many times otherwise we could have had our own lobbyists in the KC and perhaps made better progress. I think that the breed will have a healthy future in the UK and the German factor will become even more dominant but beligerence will not bring it about. We have to enlist more help perhaps through the WUSV taking up the matter with the KC. This subject has been going on for 30 years and it is not going to change because a few people rant and rave.
Kind regards
Mackenzie

by Sue B on 10 February 2009 - 20:02
Continued from post above
So once again MacKenzie thankyou for trying to change my mind, debate is good and all things should be considered before making ones decision, but having held both views over the years, my recent change of mind to favour the split is I truly do believe to be the right one for all concerned. (Although that still doesnt stop me from respecting everyone elses right to their own opinion).
Regards
Sue B
by Mackenzie on 10 February 2009 - 21:02
Hello Sue B
Thanks for your post.
Although I did not use the word ridiculous in my response to your post I have agreed with what you have said. I think what I said was clear. There is no harm is asking someone, or, anybody does Judge X prefer English or German type dogs? That in no way is asking "should I enter under that judge". That is a seperate question altogether. We will have to agree to disagree.
Like you I tolerated the Alsatianist for a long time but I finally cut the tie in 1977 after handling a female to her title which was won under two All Rounders and one Breed Specialist. She was not a worthy winner as her temperament was so poor and she was handled by a few professional handlers before I was called upon to take her on. The dog always performed very well for me and she only let me down once. She wanted one ticket for her title and she very badly backed down. The judge wanted to give her ticket but after several repeat performances he gave up at my request. Once she was made up I was asked by quite a few people to handle their dogs, all with the same temperament problems. I declined as I could not accept what was acceptable to so many people and for a while I went out of the breed completely disillusioned. We are not poles apart in what we would like to achieve. I would like to see our side run along the lines of the SV and I would whole heartedly support that if, as I said in my first post it could be successfully maintained. We may differ at this time how to go about things but what I have said in my posts is based on what has happened in the past.
Kind regards
Mackenzie

by Videx on 10 February 2009 - 23:02
Sue hits IT right on the head, when she refers to the Alsatianists apalling comments on one of our breeds greatest dogs, World Sieger Zamp vom Thermodos. That should be MORE THAN ENOUGH for every single genuine GSD oficionado to strongly require a SEPARATION of the GSD and Alsatian, as TWO SEPARATE BREEDS, now and forever.
by Watcher on 11 February 2009 - 01:02
How can they be 2 separate breeds when as i stated above the name Alsatian was given to the GSD.
When i have been asked by members of the public is my dog an alsatian or GSD, i tell them there isn't any difference and explain the reasons as to why.
So would the GSD name still be allowed to be used for Long coats and whites or would they also have to be renamed to a new breed aswell?

by Videx on 11 February 2009 - 05:02
There will be a minority of dogs that in conformation and in mixed pedigree may fall somewhere in the middle, and they will require resolution. Some may decide which breed, GSD or Alsatian, they wish to be classified as, and their decision may be accepted. Others WILL try and sit on the fence, and will, following consideration, need to be directed as to which breed they are to be placed.
Once there is AGREEMENT in principle for the separation, the PROCESS to achieve the separation, the timescale required, and the conditions, can be established and monitored jointly.
Of course there will be issues to be resolved, and a few hiccups will occur, but nothing insurmountable. The biggest distraction will be those who want the current undermining of the GSD by the Alsatianists to continue, because the undermining of the GSD is much more effective under the current situation of them both being classified as the same breed.

by Karon Melillo dVega on 11 February 2009 - 09:02

by Karon Melillo dVega on 11 February 2009 - 09:02
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/userinfo.html?userid=43801
I LOVE MARKO VON CELLERLAND
omg
i sincerely hope that you are not offended that i right-clicked and re-posted your "name" it was the swift thing to do because i was reading this conversation and immediately i want to say to you I love him too !! you will see him in most of my dogs and a major influence in type and temperament in my breeding program .......... i absolutely adore him
i adore so many other German dogs ...... particularly those i have selected in my breeding program
i have and i am enjoying reading this conversation thread ... is most enlightening
greetings from
Karon Melillo d'Vega
Von Sonnenberg Kennels ~ Montana USA

by Karon Melillo dVega on 11 February 2009 - 09:02
did some people loose sight of the origin of their dog(s) ??
The German Shepherd Dog is The German Shepherd Dog
perhaps some people have not an idea of where their dog came from and have only ever heard it called an "Alsation" but let us be real ..... what does "Alsation" mean exactly ?????? i would really like to know
The German Shepherd Dog
in
Captain Max von Stephanitz

by missbeeb on 11 February 2009 - 10:02
Karen, "Alsatian" was the name given because of anti German feeling re: war, a few others were also tried. Derived from the Alsace region. However, the name is now attributed to the overlong, short legged & often "windy" type of Shepherd in the UK. Those who have the correct (German type) wish to split and be known, rightly so, as the German Shepherd Dog... leaving the "Alsatianists" to go their own way.
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