Comparing show and Working line prices - Page 4

I also understand your perspective now that I took a look at the results of last year’s WUSV. You had one dog from your country qualify for the championship. Came in 57th place. It tells of the quality of training in your country and why you lack respect for the sport in general. If you were to see some good training, understand the kind of dog it takes to truly excel at the sport at that type of level, you might get a different picture of what some of us do.

It’s not a big deal, but in my region of the United States we had the same problem for a very long time. There was no understanding of the type of dog necessary for national level competition and how it’s different from a dog that will title at a club. We’ve recently had an influx of highly competitive dogs and you can see that people are changing their opinions on what IPO at the higher levels does prove. If you look at the majority of club level dogs they aren’t that impressive, and yes, they won’t actually protect you. People seeing those dogs probably though the national level dogs were the same, mostly because they’ve never seen them. Now that they’ve seen a few dogs with the drive, power, and obedience to get to that level, it’s opening eyes.

From my experience, a contract from a foreign country can be costly...

If a puppy (or dog) doesn't pan out, for any reason, shipping the it back is super expensive. Even if the breeder gives you back the purchase price, or offer to replace the pup, they will not pay for shipping and we all know how expensive it is to ship.

If you're looking for a pup that can and will do the work (assuming training is correct), its best to personally go to the breeder, to bring an expert along to test the litter and the dam and sire if possible.

The buyer can check the conditions in which the kennel is in, check vet records of all the dogs there, check for cleanliness, check for mental state of the dogs, check the management of the litter in general. While the expert is testing all of them, not just the puppies.

As far as videos and titles from afar, I like to see videos of all three phases (at more than one trial), AND also videos of the sire and dam in social situations like walking on loose leash on a crowed city street, with a group of dogs, with children, in a pet shop and off leash at a large park. A confident working dog will show complete ease on and off the field.

If I am to get a working puppy, I would find a trainer/mentor, someone that knows bloodlines including; achievements of relatives, health issues, typical temperament of progeny, what progeny has achieved, etc. I would strongly consider this person's suggestions.

Just my 2 cents.

Okay,
So here is a question not directly related to the original post however is revelant.

While several years ago we did take our WGSL male to a club and worked him there with bite work and such, we are still basically new to the working dog scene. Would it be better for us to obtain a dog that is already titled that we can train and learn with?

Get a young dog if you can afford it. I wouldn't get a trained dog if you want to learn. A trained dog already knows everything, and is also more than likely being sold because it hasn't achieved what the original handler thought it would. If anything, you'll end up fixing any problems that the training before has caused and that's also assuming you have people that are knowledgeable enough to see the problems and try to fix them.

For example...the dog already knows a retrieve. You'll go out there, throw the dumbbell, dog will get it and come back to you. What have you learned? That's not how a retrieve is taught, your dog already knows it, nothing for you to teach. You might be able to fix small issues, start gaining points back, but as a new handler it's unlikely you'll have the ability to nit pick the small point losses or have someone there to help you figure out how to fix the initial issue.

I´d go with the puppy - with a pup you will learn from day 1, you won´t "miss" anything, any "training faults" will be YOUR faults, but any "success" will be YOUR success, too.

Any training success achieved by yourself with a self raised/trained dog will make you more proud than an IPO 3 title based on training you didn´t do by yourself.

That said any training should be fun for owner and dog, the amount of points doesn´t matter - it´s about the team.
Just don´t await to be perfect., everybody had to begin somewhen, and a title doesn´t change your life.

@ Susie

Agree Susie...

Thank you all....I really appreciate all the help. I think we may have found our puppy....
A beautiful dark sable by Drago at a very reasonable price. Will post pictures soon!

Titles don't matter
What matters is the love you have for your dog and what love your dog has for you ! In that sense a titled dog or a non titled dog isn't any better or worse than the other. Unfortunately and sad , there are many that never reach this realization . Good luck with your puppy :-)

I've learned from getting pups and dogs of all ages/stages of training..

It depends on what you're wanting to accomplish, what support you have and how much time/energy/money you want to put into it.

A newly retired trial dog, IF well trained, can help a inexperienced handler learn to trial, and learn to work out issues. Such a dog is difficult hard to find, and prior to purchase, the buyer best bet is to go and work with the dog a few times.

A started young dog, IF well started, can be a good starting point, and its hips/elbows will have already been certified. Such a dog will already be proficient in the basics, but no title. These are available, but hard to find, and finding a good one is difficult. Sometimes a top level competitor will put much time into a pup and decide that its just not quite good enough for national or international level.

An imprinted puppy, IF well imprinted, can also be a good starting point, and its have already had preliminaries. A 6 to 8 month pup, with good training can be a great find.... the pup should already demonstrate much obedience, basic tracking and pillow/tug drive.

A puppy is a good choice, IF you have plenty of time for socializing, have a good trainer to help you, and you have plenty of time.

From my experience; I bought Hanny when she was 6, she had amazing training, and she taught me much, I was able to learn the OB patterns, got a handle on tracking and protection. Nord was 4, he was amazing, his training and temperament was super, he helped to teach me even more. Training a puppy from the beginning shows me every deficiency I have, and I am able to learn much.

Having a good club and excellent trainer, being willing to listen and then ask questions, and follow directions is most important for most of us, especially beginners.