Personal Protection questions - Page 4

k9hooligan, bet you didn't think you would get this much advice. You have time to weed though it and begin to learn, it really is a fascinating subject that has many viewpoints. 4-pack brought up an idea that is worth considering. A dog that looks the part, is territorial. Let everyone know he will bite even if he wont. By doing so people will display some fear/respect and it will build his confidence. Make sure you praise him. He can be a very nice, social dog that is not a liability yet keep most bad guys away. You can even do a little training of your own with a buddy that comes over at night and raises a little cane, as long as your guy chases him off, he wins. I assume you have a fence. There are lots of things you can do to have a good deterent with out the liabilitys.

4pack, you are wrong. I will make no sales pitch since I am not breeding or selling any GSDs and haven't for a few years. I do think it is important for newbies to be told the truth about normal gsd temperament. Let's face it many want to buy GSDs for family protection, but don't want gangster dogs or hyperactive stretched taffy sleeve addicted nerve endings. I do not plan to do so again. I have no idea what you have owned, but I assume from your posts that you do not really know what proper, normal GSD temperament is. My mother owned a german import bitch in the 1920s. She was an alpha bitch an ran the whole house and yard. Her temperament was exactly like I have stated and she was sound, happy and easy going until someone did something out of line. Then she reacted proportionately with appropriate force as needed to "get control". I could recite quite a number of examples of real world, real time incidences where GSDs of docile, easy going, sound and normal temperament delivered 100% protection when it was appropriate, being easy going and sane the rest of the time. This is not extraordinary temperament for a GSD but is normal, preferred and what most want. What I never liked or thought to be normal were hyperactive GSDs with extreme prey drive, extreme defensiveness and little loyalty and protective drives for defending their master, family and turf. These hyperactive GSDs with extreme prey and defensive drive are in my view nothing but nerve endings that can ritualistically pace in their kennels, hit the sleeve and get high Sch. scores (that's about it) and they tend to make poor household pets. As you read Von Stephanitz's classic book you will see his description of normal temperament (remarkable docility at the end of the day after work around his master and other pets, rabbits and kitties--note the photos of shepherds laying down next to rabbits and deer with no aggression or prey drive expressed). Many of these sleeve obsessed, hyperactive, nerve ending competition profung dogs have been bred into an overspecialized corner and are limited use dogs, unlike what the Captain specified as ideal temperament. This is not my speculation, this is well recorded in the GSD history. It is not too much to expect a GSD to have this normal, sound temperament. nuff said.

Preston, I'm not sure where you get I prefer prey nut dogs. This is why I love GSD's and not Mals. I don't do the pinging off the walls crap at my house. I have a cat, rats and various other small pets my dogs have been exposed to and are just fine. I really dig my new puppy because he has about enough drive to hit the sleave at full tily but can lay down and chill out with me when he isn't being worked. Show him the ball and see his focus and toy drive. He grew out of his chewy stage rather quickly and without ruining anything of mine beside the plastic shower curtain, when I bathed him the first time inside. =) My dogs are calm enough to be lose outside and wont bother dogs being walked by their owners. They stay in the yard as they should. They distinctly know the difference if a lose dog is roaming past unnatended and quickly shoo it off. They have never been tested by a human "invader" I would hope they would at least bark or try to protect me but I don't bet on it and they have not been trained for it.

Hello Preston, Good to see you post. Have not seen you in awhile on the message board. This one must have woken you up hu? I would love to see the normal gsd's of yesterday resurface. I think you would have to admit that what you describe as normal sound temperament is not the norm today. What you describe as the sleeve happy, overdrive dog is much more common. Max also wanted a degree of Sharpness in his dogs, not wanting them to befriend everyone, but wanting them to be more aloof. This is also not easily found today. This poor guy k9hooligan is getting far more then he bargained for.

I'm a newbie here. I'm also not a breeder. I do not own a GSD yet. Also from my aspect. K9. You should ask yourself first this: About the insurance. Liability. Ask your home owner insurance first, how much it will cost. GSD'S, Doberman's are on the hit list by the insurance. Not every Insurance will take them. A warning shall be here as well. The law is right now for the stupid people .if a thief is breaking in a house and gets bitten. He can sue the house owner for Millions. And in some cases he will win. Then what?

I have lived with a hard core protection dog for the home, Belgian Tervuren back in the 70's. They are not pets and if you try and turn them into one your likely to make a mistake and get bite. A truly trained protection dog is not a dog you buy and get one or 2 lessons on how to handle and then bring it home to live with. The training with the owner/handler is as long as the life of the dog. Unless you have a serious reason for obtaining one, are willing to continue the training and live by the rules. You have no business obtaining one. You would be better off getting a well balanced dog, and part of the balance in the dog is not leaving it just in the home. It needs to get out and be exposed to other things, people, traffic, noise. It needs to bond with your wife, obedience training would take that bond along way. Sch is a sport, The dog would enjoy the sport and maybe if your wife was exposed to it, she may also.

I fully agree with that post 1doggie2. The more places she takes the dog and more she does with it, I think the protection will become stronger naturaly. I think of it like a pack mentality, my dogs and I travel all over together and I protect them as they do the same for me. I feed them, they do as I ask and they enjoy being asked to do a task actually. A good dog is a dog that watches you all the time, just waiting for the next word from you. Training deepens that bond and as the dog is rewarded for a good job, he craves to work more.

"Let everyone know he will bite even if he wont." Anyone considering doing this should check the statutes and case laws of their state first. The reason is that in certain jurisdictions, a dog that has been trained to bite or has in fact bitten in the past is presumed not to be a normal "pet" dog, but rather is in the same class as animals such as tigers etc. that the law presumes are inherently dangerous. And along with a legal presumption as a dangerous animal come extremely heightened duties of care that the keeper must take to protect the public from harm. Simply put, a fenced-in yard with a sign on the gate that says "beware of dog" may not be considered sufficient to meet the heightened duty of care associated with a "wild or presumptively dangerous animal." The last thing any owner defending a dog bite claim needs is for the court to find that owner "knew or should have known" that the dog was "presumptively dangerous" because evidence is presented that the owner shot his mouth off about the dog's propensity to bite.

p59teitel, Ok, glad this has been brought up,I have been told do not post "beware of dog". Just for those reasons, I know dangerous dog. So I have posted, Rottie crossing with picture of rottie, and a sign with picture of GSD'S. For all of you attorney's out there, can you comment?

God more lawyer crap! If the dog did indeeed bite a person, records would be checked and neighbors questioned. If the dog hadn't bit it wouldn't be on file and what the owner told people can easily be explained with reason. You are right however the "Beware of dog" sign and "Keep Out", even a latched gate means nothing. I had all of this and my dog tied in my backyard to her dog house "escape artist dog". Neighbor kids came in my backyard, "looking for ladybugs" when nobody was home and she bit one of them. My dog was home quarenteened and got a nasty nick on her record for protecting her 3 day old pups and her property. Luckily my mother wasn't sued but my dog had her 1 strike and we had to deal with that, the rest of her life. Homeowners insurance caught wind and it was hell to get someone to cover us. This is why I wouldn't recommend people who don't know how to hadle dogs,to own a PP or dog trained to bite. It's easier and safe to say the dog bites when it really doesn't. Most people aren't going to chance it with a large animal anyway.