Health ? Idiopathic Renal Hematuria (after e.coli) - Page 4

First IMO it would be quite unusual for a male to have an e-coli bladder/kidney infection.  Dogs are generally resistant to e-coli and to have that bacteria migrate from his environment to his bladder/kidney would not be very common. Did the vet catherize him for a mid-stream sterile urine catch? Just collecting the urine in a clean pan is not good enough to assure that the sample isn't contaminated - generally by stool. Culture and sensitivity is definitely a sound idea using a sterile catch, but he should be off any antibiotics for a specified period of time depending on which drug was used last and when. Since the tech will be looking for the antibiotic that seems to do the best job attacking the bacteria,  you don't want previously used antibiotics to interfere. The downside to waiting is that this needs to be addressed ASAP.

E-coli is contained in all dogs' and humans' stools. it is what gives it that characteristic odor. If you've ever been there when the tech opens an agar plate that is growing out e-coli, you will never forget it.  Even if a dog eats stool or a raw meal that contains e-coli, it shouldn't migrate to the bladder or kidneys, only to the stomach where is generally causes no health issues. Dogs can usually eat all sorts of dead stuff contaminated with e-coli and never get too sick from doing that.

My gut tells me that this dog is not being correctly diagnosed - idiopathic hematuria just doesn't happen with young health dogs.It's a symptom, not a disease itself. My approach would be to either take the puppy to the local vet school or to call them for a reference to a local vet who is well versed in renal issues. I think this is an emergency situation and the youngster may not have a happy ending unless he is properly treated and even then there might not be a promising prognosis.

Something is just not right here;  vets??Maybe see internal med's spec don't think vet's specialize in Urology.  Jen try not to worry too much as if all that was done things should be covered fairly well.  And actually a fresh catch from outside collection is a whole lot safer for this puppy (NOT catherization).  Just let urine flow in sterile catch container and rush to vet immediately.  I have experienced several dogs where the vet went directly into the bladder to draw urine and those dogs were in pain for several days afterwards.  Not good at all.

In this little guys case you want to not cause him stress at this time if at all possible.  That would be a fresh catch, even if you have to repeat several times, just hold catch bottle under flow and cap immediately, it does not take too much either only a few CC's; and my favorite vet (IM guy spec, and derma spec as well) told me in order to get correct results from any type lab work you need to wait 4-6 weeks without any type med's and then do blood/urine with C&S or whatever else you want to have done.  Everythimg needs to be out of the dogs system prior to testing to get accurate results.  Otherwise you can get a misdiagnosis which maybe this little guys case.  Thank goodness he is healthy otherwise so far.  Really I do not think the raw diet has anything to do with this problem.  You can get e-coli in bagged crap dry food.. and in fact the lesser protein is probably good for him.  Kefir/yogart alternating with cottage cheese may be really good for him to add to whatever he is eating, scrambled egg, ground meats, keep proteins easily digestable if at all possible;  repeat blood work and urine with C&S.  Surprisingly they do not offer this much anymore;  used to be that was the first thing to be done blood/urine w/C&S was standard if you had a dog that was "off"??  Just don't get it now,  is it the vets or is it the fact that the owners are fearful to demand what they need for good  health of the puppies/dogs?  JHC.  Keep pushing Jen, you will get there. 

Please keep us posted, maybe someone can learn something from all this.  Nan

 A midstream sterile catch is needed to make a correct diagnosis. Even if you get the dog to urinate directly into a sterile container, ite sample will still have to pass through the uretha before exiting the dog where is can be contaminated. It has to be taken directly from the bladder. If this were a minor issue and not long going with this dog, a non sterile mid stream catch might be sufficient, but IMO  they are way past  the "good enough" stuff now and need to get out the big guns.  Renal issues can be serious business and life threatening.

Jen, it usually only takes 3, 4 days to grow out bacteria on a plate assuming the tech uses an incubator. You can tell by looking at it when it's ready to read and if there is cross contamination of some type. A week should have been long enough.

Blitzen, I now e.coli is very common and dogs are typically fairly resistant, but do you feel the same way about a pup who was stressed by a move, treatment for coccidia, first shots, deworming, etc. and then quick diet switch to raw? If there is e.coli in the food (or anywhere else, as it's not exactly uncommon), couldn't it be possible that he could simply lick himself and let it crawl up there and multiply since his immune system was a bit stressed at the time? I agree that it's less common in a male, but certainly not unheard of. 

It's been a long time since I've dealt with any UTI stuff, and that was a cat. 

Anything is possible, it's just not very probable IMO. All dog stool contains e-coli, so I'm not sure what eating a raw diet would have to do with it. It just seems to me that there is something else going on with this pup. I'll be glad if I'm wrong.

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/diagnostic-approach-hematuria

Blitzen, the problem arises when there's colonization of an particularly virulent strain of E. coli, and not the garden-variety strains. The former are the ones being implicated in UTIs, especially in association with idiopathic renal hematuria.

Jenni, something else to consider: this pup hasn't received any of the chicken jerky products that have been causing kidney damage in so many dogs in recent years, has he? 

A correct diagnosis is a must for this young dog. If he does have e-coli then he he can be treated accordingly.

Hexe, I certainly don't think so. His owners are quite cautious about what he eats as far as sourcing, etc. I will definitely ask. His kidney values were SLIGHTLY elevated the first time they did bloodwork, down the second time (also difference between fasting and just having eaten raw meat) and they were sent to a specialist for evaluation and came back as "well within healthy range for breed and age."