hard dogs - Page 4

Walter, I have thought a lot about the validity of scores. I know that you and I strive for the highest we can attain because of our goals. But, when it gets right down to it, a passing score, along with the koerklasse, is what makes a dog breed worthy. (I know that is a techicality, but it's the truest definition.) And I don't disagree about dogs reproducing. I earlier stated my philosophy on that. I'm just cautious about entering an 'untrainable' dog into a breed program no matter what it brings to the table.

Spook my man. I believe there is a lot more prey involved than you state. Using a boxing analogy, the boxer is in defence when circling his oponent. when an opening appears he quickly steps in and unloads {prey}, if he has hurt his oponent he will continue throwing punches until the knockout occurs.{prey} Now to the dogs, they strike similar {prey} when the opening occurs and continue grippng{Prey} until either target is dead{slipped sleeve} or the bell or out is given. That is why we work so hard to get a good out on the better, tougher dogs. And I agree that the better dogs fight harder on the sleeve and should be rewarded for this in trials. Unfortunately too many poorer dogs get too many points when not showing this. JMHO --Bob

I agree. a hard dog in my eyes is one that has extreme high drive. Almost bordering on to much drive. the type of dog that works only because it has only one reason to live and that is to work. i am a K-9 handler and trainer/breeder. I have worked and seen some very hard dogs. But i have also saw dogs in the field that never should have made it. I work with southern police canine and find some of the highest drive dogs for breeding. My puppies are worked by me an other K-9 handlers to prepare and test them for police work. So far we have been very lucky at our breeding selections. I am constantly looking for those great matches.

Realcold, I'm not sure what percentage is prey. I know without prey it doesn't happen. What else I do know is I love it when it looks like they're really trying to stop the "bad guy" rather than just holding on for the ride.

thanks for all the info it realy helps but what i need to know is who is breedong these dogs or haves any thanks for any help looking for a sable m/f with these drives up to 4 yrs old kennel name or web page

Hard dog??? I had a Champ vom Kretzschauer Land son... One day, my children were playing in our yard (fenced) and the neighbors dogs jumped MY fence and went after my children. Onyx jumped out a 2nd story window (thank god it was open), onto the roof of our carport, onto the ground, took on 3 dogs by himself, and kicked butt!! Was it "hardness"/genetics? or simply instint to protect his humans?

My male Arras is a very hard dog. You can see him here http://www.vonsidener.com/Males.html

Some people get it some people don't.

Aha discusion worth the thread space it's on!

Smile Spook. Its not your job to save them ALL. I have a few things you may want to try to get that fight look if you have the dog for it. Contact me if so. --Bob