Smaller the litter, Greater chance of caesarian??? - Page 4

Uvar, You are the most opinionated and judgmental person with limited information. GSDLVR was asking a question for help, I should know as she is my wife. She was/and still is whelping the female. We had an ultrasound and it showed 4 pups. You were WRONG in that although only one was born none of the others are dead and/or blocking as you so brilliantly stated. Perhaps you should be more like Eichenluft and just answer the direct questions, not start up with "i would not breed such a bitch" nonsense! I am sure you are the only experienced breeder in the world and your way is always right and so on, but in this case everything you said is wrong. Perhaps you should give more credit to the men and women who study for years to become vets and stick to breeding hamsters or something like that. Nuff said!

Flipfinish, let us know how it turns out. I've known a few breeders who went to bed at night thinking their bitch was finished whelping and the next morning one or two more puppies appeared many hours after the last LOL. One even almost didn't see a puppy whelped outside after dark when the dam went out to relieve herself. That taught her to go along with a flashlight. We learn as we do and I think sharing those sort of things are good. I'd never have given that a thought had I not known about that puppy. It sounds like everything is going OK now, good luck.

You really need to be careful. Our vet said the same thing to us, nothing to worry about, and we lost half the litter because of our vet saying there's nothing to worry about. Needless to say we no longer have him as a vet.

Some years ago I had the same experience as Kelly, and lost three pups from waiting too long, on vet¿s advice. I think 6 hours with contractions is quite long to wait....Going back to the original question I have one female both times had 4 pups and delivered normally. I have another female who had 3, then 5 pups and both times needed a C-section (first time we thought it was due to small number of large pups, the second time contractions just were never strong enough, labour was not progressing normally and it was day 67, first time we lost one, second time all survived...). I know other breeders who have had litters of one, two and three with normal deliveries, but I do believe from what I have read that C-section is more likely to be needed with small litters. As for sumo¿s point about food, I had a female who would not get pregnant while she was being fed RC German Shpherd 24 - she was in beautiful show condition, but I was worried about the the soy content maybe affecting fertility and stopped using this food (its no longer available here anyway). She has since got pregnant twice. Maybe coincidence, or not? Good luck with your litter, GSDLVR and lets us know how it works out.

flipfinish I am pleased to hear that you have 4 puppies. Congratulations! Now, please sleep with this litter and attend it 24 hours per day for the next week or more. I assume you whelped naturally, and congratulations are in place again! Regarding the topic of this thread, any advice given on a short report that somebody has been waiting for 6 hours for the next puppy will be incorrect since details and history are not available. I do not take a puppy ever from a litter born by C-section even though I know that many C-sections were not justified and are the deed of the vet or the owner. But, bottom line is that the necessaty for a C-section is part of the reproduction system in a bitch, therefore a bitch which requires a C-section is not a healthy bitch. Faults in the reproduction system fall in the same category healthwise as other problems, like HD etc. Regarding your advice that I should be more like others....well I am known for my arrogance and for my direct comments. I am neither American nor Canadian. Regarding your comment about sticking to breed hamsters, yes, you are almost right on. Any dog breeder who wants to learn the basics of genetices should first read the few books on dog breeding - unfortunately most of them in the German language - on the market and then start breeding chickens like some of the best writers of those books. Yes, I have bred chickens to study genetics for dogs.

****Ok, everybody! Here's the deal. MY dream has always been to whelp a litter, so our male is the stud and the trainer's client is the owner of the dam. My husband gave me the opportunity to whelp the litter. We are keeping one of my choice. The mother is a sable and the father is black/red (you may remember a thread not long ago where I asked what I would get colorwise). We had 4 beutiful babies today!!! One spunky little fiesty sable girl just like her mom and 3 gorgeous black/reds. 2 girls - 2 boys - LOVELY litter. So, I have read hours and hours online at 2 and 3 in the morning to prepare and pulled all kinds of lists off the internet - so don't have to go through all the detail Uvar, but I appreciate it anyway - never know when you can pick up some extra advice for future reference. I went out and bought :

Betadine - Use to dip umbilical cords in after cutting them and keeping them clean (Walmart $3.00 the band-aids) Stethoscope - To listen for heartbeats before and after delivery. And most important to make sure all puppies are delivered. (ebay, buyemp, 9 - 13.00) Thermometer - To record temps, use digital not mercury, you can cause damage if mercury breaks off in a nervous bitch (Walmart $3 - 7.00 by the pharmacy) Scissors - You can use anything from children's safety scissors or surgical scissors. (Ebay, Walmart $.99 - 10.00) String - To tie off umbilical cords after cutting. Do not use waxed flavored dental floss, I use cross stitching string (DMC Floss) (.59 cents in walmarts craft section) Soak in alcohol or betadine. Bulb Syringe - To suck out fluid from puppies nose and throat. (Walmart, baby section, 2 ounce size for $2.00) or you can go to buyemp and get three different bulb syringe sizes, from 1 ounce (Small Pups) - 3 Ounce bulb syringes (For large Puppies) Plus you can buy what sellers are calling whelping umbilical cord scissors (there price 5.00 and up) for 2.59. Hemostats - To Pinch off Umbilical cords (ebay is the cheapest I found them at ( 1.50 and up) Latex Gloves - Now when your helping deliver the pups these gloves will not help you grip the pup so I do not use them when I am assisting a birth. I only use them for internal vaginal exam for the bitch. (Walmart - 3.50 - 8.00 a box, by pharmacy) Ky Jelly - To help loosen the puppy when delivering or to place on the thermometer during temp check. (Walmart $2.00 - 4.00) Hand Towels - Everyone has extra around the house, if not walmart again :-) you can get 10 for $5.00 or go to your local thrift store and buy some ( Make sure they are washed in hot water before using) Heating Pad - I simply use a standard heating pad that I bought at walmart for for like $14.00. And it had 3 settings and an automatic shut off when it go to hot. It worked perfect. Towels - Just like hand towels Scale - A simple Kitchen Diet Scale works (Walmart again cost $8.88, where kitchen dept. Underpads - You can get these at sam's club, cosco for like $20.00 for 100 pads. Trash Bags - Easy anywhere you go you can get them. Get Small for plactena's and stuff like that, Bigger bads for newspaper, towels or blankets that need a wash but you can't do it yet. Dark Kyro Syrup - To help slow pups and tired moms. Its a great energy boost and natural. Simple rub on the puppies gums for fast action. Puppy Formula and Bottle - Emergency Only Supply - Again walmarts pet section - $3.00 and up Oh and ribbon - to tie around the puppies neck for identification. Get 10 different colors or designs. Heating Lamps - Walmart has them in the hardware section for 5.00 and the bulbs for 3.00.(10' Polished Aluminum Refelector Lamp only 5.88 at walmart) Feed Tubes and such for 1.99 please contact me for where to get them and pet meds".

TODAY'S SAGA CONT'D: I have been at this dog's side CONSTANTLY - she thinks I am her surrogate mother! I called the vet after 2 hrs (with still no more pups) like they said and they said the Dr. was at lunch and to show up at 1pm if she still had none. She was contracting some but not much. 1pm came and I went there. The vet had said it's still ok (7 hrs no pups) for a first time mom sometimes this happens, etc., and if it was 24 hrs I should worry, but come in to get an oxytocin shot. So I brought the mom and single sable pup and they gave her the shot - waited....30 minutes later she crapped all over the floor - some contractions but nothing...waited another 45 min..he gave her an iv with fluids....wait another 30 minutes to an hr...he gave her another oxytocin shot...AND THAT'S WHEN IT ALL STARTED..... I called my husband and said "How much do you want to bet it's a big boy holding up the show?"...not 15 minutes after that - major contractions and an HUGE HEAD - stuck. I called the vet in and he helped the big boy holding up the show out!!! Next came a good sizze girl - no problems...then another big boy. This time it was really slow going and the mom was exhausted. I saw the head out , but bag was still in tact - AND DARK GREEN, so I broke it and syphoned his mouth and nostrils and he came to - cried a bit, but his head and paw were coming out at the same time and he was STUCK pretty tight and he was TIRED. So i called the vet in and he helped again (both times he helped, the mom was NOT HAPPY and cried, growled which was UNHEARD of for her, so you know she was in PAIN)and got him out and "swung" him and I rubbed him down and then momma took over. The vet said it was a good thing I came when I did - the pups were BIG and she just wasn't having the contractions she needed to have. She couldn't have done it by herself. I swear I held my breath with her every contraction! Those were MY PUPS, too! :)

It was a ***WONDERFUL*** experience - so amazing. To sum it up - They are all fat and happy sleeping soundly right now. Momma is being fed raw diet by hand and is totally spoiled and eating better than the family! (I even sliced her some fresh butter pieces to add richness to the milk!) Momma is a fabulous mother and the pups are absolutely precious and GORGEOUS!!!! This day was a gift I'll never forget. It should never be forgotten that life is a precious gift - we can try to have control and do everything right, but the outcome always rests in His Sovereign Hands. I thank God for this beautiful day and the wondrous miracles out there in that box!

Congratulations on your beautiful litter, you really did well, much better than I did with my first litter of 3. Kudos....job well done.