Need HELP with dog growling at children, please! - Page 4

I hate to say Jenni MIGHT be right. Socialization is overrated. Do people with Golden Retrievers do extensive socialization? I've owned too many dogs to list and my most socialized dog had to be put down and my least was the most social, and these all came from lines with known aggression. I don't care who your breeder is, everyone can produce garbage. Look at my brother.

Wait, I disagree with Jenni's last post. Many breeders will poopoo the idea that it is anything to do on their part. Go see a reputable trainer.

Chaz, depends on who the breeder is. Should they not know the parents more than random folks on the internet and know what they may have produced previously and what may or may not be a good route to take in training? I didn't say not to see a trainer, I said to bring the concern to the breeder so s/he's aware, and not to just take what totally uninvolved people on the internet think about the reasons why the dog might be this way. The breeder sold the people the dog, they may have met the people, they may know how they are as handlers, and they know what puppy they sent them and what its early temperament was. I just think the breeder MUST be informed of issues like this for their own benefit and to prevent it in the future, IF it's in fact a genetic problem (sounds like one, but I'm not there to say for sure, so I will give benefit of the doubt).  Nonetheless, I'm relieved you're back to disagreeing with me. 

 

Jenni, I was kinda joking, but not really. If it is a good breeder, they probably don't produce problems often. If they are just a byb, they probably don't care or know.

And I agree with the random people like you and I. My only advice is a reputable trainer.

I must say that I don't think just because a dog growls at kids means it has a "poor temperament."  I think in the OP's case there definitely is a temperament and training issue.  I do agree with Hired dog, Laura and naturally Chaz.

Chaz, do a bit of homework...I'll help you via PM. Not a BYB. Could be environment, dog could be getting read wrong, could be genetics. No way to know on a message board. 

Is there a DNA test to see temperament issues with kids? Many owners aren't aware of what the consequences of their "training" might have...for example, hitting with prong when a kid arrives and pulling back at same time. To me, that's reminiscent of building drive for the long bite. Stuff like that happening since puppy hood molds a pup in ways an inexperienced owner can't predict and thinks is inconsequential. A breeder, unless they know they are producing kid aggressive dogs, won't be able to look at the situation (without spending time to actually see the owner and dog in presence of kids) and know any more than what the owners are relating to them...which is, " I don't know, he just grows."
They need a trainer and not petsmart, but a real trainer.

What I said to the OP in a PM is that they're likely building suspicion by anticipating a problem with children now, that may have only started out as unfamiliarity or unsureness. If the owner was unsure of how the pup would react and walked up to them within a certain distance, then stopped and tightened her grip, she's eliciting that response from him. She may, in fact, be training the dog to react that way, though I don't think hackling and growling at toddlers 10 feet or more away is a real good sign! 

My suggestion that she notify the breeder stems from the thought that if the breeder vetted the buyer, they may have a better idea of what kind of handler they are than we do. Beyond that, if this is as it appears on the surface, a temperament issue, the breeder ought to know. If a breeder is doing their job, they should be inquiring as to experience levels. Knowing a handler's experience can lend clues to what may or may not be going on and how much is the dog and how much is the handler. Also, the breeder, unless they're a huge, commercial operation ought to have some idea of what the pup's temperament was like. Hopefully, they paired them carefully. I know some breeders will give lesser pups to pet homes, which I think is a horrible practice, but a conscientious breeder would have had a good idea what the pup's genetic temperament was like by the time they left. Of course things can be influenced, and we all love to say puppies are a crapshoot, but really, an experienced breeder has a pretty good idea of a pup's stability, at the very least, by the time it goes home. 

Your snake analogy was perfect, Joan. 

@Joanro...".for example, hitting with prong when a kid arrives and pulling back at same time. To me, that's reminiscent of building drive for the long bite. Stuff like that happening since puppy hood molds a pup in ways an inexperienced owner can't predict and thinks is inconsequential."

I do not know if you are talking in general, or  if you are assuming I have done this "since puppyhood", or if that was the impression my post portrayed. However, I corrected him this way a total of three times. Also, he was not hit with the prong when a kid arrived, but upon eliciting a growl.

Just felt the need to clarify.

Although, I do agree this could have sent the wrong message and am amending my methods to more positive training. Thanks!