What makes a belief a "Religion" ? - Page 4

This is interesting. Look what else I found.... (I am home now, lol. Felloffer, I will add my personal POV ... in a bit. I'm thinking on my feet. Like usual.)

Great Britain (English Law)

The chief law officer is called Lord Chancellor and holds the title of 'the conscience of the monarch.^[8] British subjects have a long history of religious upheaval from the time when Henry VIII of England ordered the English Reformation. There followed a long period of alternate suppressions and liberalizations until, following theRestoration when common law became progressively more descriptive than prescriptive judges were allowed some latitude in determining guilt (which is whyEnglish law is so ambiguous.^[9] British 'religious atheists' are numerous and might include George Fox, John Wesley and, notably Jeremy Bentham whose body is displayed in the South Cloister of University College London^[10]
 

United States of America

The United States was an association of former British Colonies which incorporated much of English law and culture in its Federal Constitution. Atheism in the USA is protected under the First Amendment's Free Exercise Clause. In August 2005, in a case where a prison inmate was blocked by prison officials from creating an inmate group to study and discuss atheism, the court ruled this violated the inmate's rights under the First Amendment's Free Exercise Clause. The United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit affirmed previous Supreme Court precedent by ruling atheism be afforded equal protection with religions under the 1st amendment.^[11][12]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_and_religion

Bee,

You should elaborate a little further on the link. Are you equating Atheism with Communism? If this is the case we could go back in history and link any number of leaders or regimes with a less then stellar track record too a particular faith, could we not?

Communism, Socialism, Fabianism, and the Progressive movement are founded squarely upon Marxism.  Karl Marx essentially took Hegel's "process philosophy", and merged it with Feuerbach's materialism to produce his manifest.  The origin of all the preceding is atheism.  That doesn't mean I think all atheists are subscribers, only that as do most other people, they only pursue their beliefs and philosophies so far, never really apprehending the history, substance, genesis, or teleology of their path.

Carlin,

Atheist ideology was well established prior to Hegel, Feuerbach or Marx and the principle was not founded on a socialist philosophy. It would be akin to calling all Muslims jihadists.

Bee,

The supreme court didn't rule that Atheism is a religion, it merely grants those who choose not to identify with any religious group the same protection under the constitution.                                                                                                                                                                                                     

In response to the chart you posted, it takes a great amount of arrogance to assert that there is or isn't a god and anyone making such a claim can't be taken seriously.

Atheist ideology was well established prior to Hegel, Feuerbach or Marx and the principle was not founded on a socialist philosophy. It would be akin to calling all Muslims jihadists.

I didn't say atheism was founded upon these philosophies, I said the philosophies were founded upon atheism, and they are.  Though an atheist is not necessarily a socialist, an increasingly connected global community is in continual motion, and the movers and shakers utilize the common thread to forward their agenda, much in the way the GOP likes to pull the strings the of Christian base.  I am not affiliated with the GOP, but even here on this forum, I am associated with them by way of the aforementioned "threads".  Often, as well, a belief system can exist long before it is defined.  I would submit that most atheists do not understand their personal philosophy (everyone has one) in terms of rational thought, as outlined earlier in this thread.

Felloffher, I hadn't considered my position as "absolutely sure there
is no god"  as arrogant, before, but I can see why you might think it
is.  The difficulty is one stops being an atheist and becomes an
agnostic, if one allows for the slight possibility that a god exists;  and
I feel there's no evidence for one, so do not wish to be labelled as an
agnostic.


Bee, your link illustrates that a variety of regimes and societies have,
over time, found it supports their aims to outlaw religion, even to
criminalize it, but that does not in itself proclaim atheism AS a religion.
(Whichever way the US Supreme Court chooses to rule, LOL !)

I think there are probably less examples of similar outlawing of atheism;
but a) it happens de facto in religious societies anyway;  b) probably 
means that in all communities there are too many rational people declaring
a lack of belief to deal with.

Moons, thanks.  BTW, he's opened another thred but it was still a response !
Just SSDD unfortunately rather than any simple Plain English defence -
what's new, though ?

 

BTW Bee, dunno who coined that "religious atheists" phrase in the Wikipedia
entry, but it's merely a descriptive term  (much like you and I were finding words
to describe people who are so convinced by their atheism that they actively
proselytize about it) and not one with any particular validity.
As to quoting Websters, as an 'antonym' is used as a word of 'contrary' [or
opposite] meaning to the word in question, it can hardly be equated with it ?

Carlin,

I disagree with you that atheists do not understand their own personal philosophies. By definition we don't believe in the existence of a god and it's as simple as that for most of us. I consider myself to be a libertarian, but I do agree with Marx's view on religions role in politics and education. IMO socialism and religion are one and the same, they are both mechanisms of control. However, it could be argued that religion is a far greater threat to society.

Felloffher, I hadn't considered my position as "absolutely sure there
is no god"  as arrogant, before, but I can see why you might think it
is.  The difficulty is one stops being an atheist and becomes an
agnostic, if one allows for the slight possibility that a god exists;  and
I feel there's no evidence for one, so do not wish to be labelled as an
agnostic.

Hundmutter,
 
 I also believe there isn't a single shred of evidence supporting the idea of a god and I support the idea that it is highly unlikely. However, I feel it is difficult to deal in absolutes when we don't have all the answers. I would agree 100%  that there isn't a religion on this earth that has it right. I don't feel this philosophy makes me agnostic, but I guess  it could be interpreted that way.

Felloffher, I feel as you do.  Not a question of self-definition,
though, is it ?  Can't count the number of times I've said
to some 'born-again':   "No, I accept I can't prove I'm right that
there is no god" to have them promptly come back at me
with "Well, there you are then, you're really only an agnostic
not an atheist, you are hedging your bets".  So now I just
insist that I am an atheist, period.   E.g. I don't get tempted into
'praying' in moments of trauma,  I don't say "oh I don't know,
there might be some sort of 'afterlife',maybe",  or "people might
have some sort of spirit, or soul - who knows".  So to my mind I
am not someone who can be 'labelled' agnostic;  but as the
unthinkingly religious have proved time & again, they can't
deal with the concept.