Nerve Issues or not? - Page 4

Excellent post Paul. I want to add this about my dog. I took him to a dog show and he got kicked out for snapping at a a corgi. OK I just took this as he didn't like the dog, he was too crowded--basically I blamed it on the situation and not my dog. But whn the thunderstorm issues came up, I got to wondering about things and trying to put it all together. It's like Paul said--the cracks--and tho noone wants to admit their dog has a problem, yes I sincerely believe he has nerve problems. Which is why he was never bred again and which is one of the small reasons he was neutered. And after I determined all this in my own little brain, I decided to very carefully watch anything that has his lines--so far I seem to be OK, but I want to breed anything with those lines away and never linebreed on them. Maybe some can say oh that's just hogwash. Maybe in your mind but I am trying to produce dogs for work--service and SAR--and I just don't need any "goofiness". In my opinion the GSD has enough of that already and we continue to breed "iffy" dogs we are going to do nothing but worsen the problem. JMO. Happy Easter folks!!!!!

Paul and Gustav,
Excellent posts.

Hutchins,
I happen to agree that most titled dogs should not be bred, many top working and show lines dogs should not be bred. Some BSP and VA dogs probably should not be bred. A title alone does not guarantee breed worthiness and Conformation show ratings certainly do not, IMO. But an independent critique and judging combined with the effort put into training and titling a dog is a good start. You mentioned "She is a fearless, full of drive, and will hit a sleeve without hesitation." As I said earlier a dog with drive will do many things while "in drive" that it normally would not when not in drive.

"Hundmutter, that was very well said. I neither train or participate in sport or titling our dogs. However, like you and many others out dogs do not go from the kennel to the training field as a means of being worked. Our dogs are worked not only on the training field but in the park taking that casual walk, a trip to Petco or the store, going out to social gatherings of many kinds and also making routine visits to the nursing homes. YES, I just described the dog this thread was about.

We don't get titles for this but if a dog can do all these things with confidence and no issues, AND are able to get health certifications, what makes ours dogs less breed worthy than a titled dog, or a titled "dog that finds comfort in the sleeve?" Not trying to start a debate, but just stating my opinion."

I certainly do not mean to offend you and I hope that I don't, it is not my intention. But, what you described above is what most pets with caring owners do. Your description sounds like a very nice dog, but none of that qualifies any GSD to be breed worthy, IMHO.  What makes dogs like this less breed worthy than titled dogs are the lack of titles, lack of testing, and "are able to get health certifications" is a whole lot different than actually getting the health certifications.  We as dog owners and those that want to be breeders need to look at their animals objectively and note the strengths and weaknesses of the animal.  Sometimes it is far better to take the dog out of the home field and have an independent person critique and evaluate the dog.  That is where the trials and shows have the biggest benefit to a breeder.  

I'll say it again, I don't think the dog being "scared to death" of thunder is a huge issue.  I would certainly work to resolve the issue.  No dog is perfect and I'm sure the dog is wonderful is many other areas.  

Slamdunc, I am by NO Means offended and enjoy your opinions alot.  Like I said I posted this as I thought it was a good topic and we could have lots of opinions stated.

There is so much more to breeding dogs than just putting male and female together. This post was used as an example to hopefully get people thinking about other credentials other than titles.  Like I said, there is so much more to breeding than some breeders even realize.  

As a follow up to Jim, you would be surprised that a vast majority of GS today will not meet the requirements for "urban Search and Rescue". I have had one of the top FEMA trainers in the country tell me and SHOW me where the majority of the GS that they test for Urban SAR, do not make the initial testing. Many of our breed have issues with the pallet rubble, and the large rubble piles of materials of concrete, asphalt, unstable surfaces,.......no go! You see it is not enough for the dog to go up and through these piles, ( and most have difficulty with that aspect because of nerves and structure), but then they have to work effectively and efficiently through the piles. I have seen dogs with over the top prey that will go up the rubble, but lack the nerve strength to be oblivious to the heights, unsureness of footing, and possessing bulky structure that makes it impossible to navigate. This is not what this breed was supposed to be! Some of you think that the ability to bite is lacking in the breed, actually it is more rock solid nerve. Things like seeing eye work and urban SAR clearly demonstrate how we are breeding more pets and sport dogs than working dogs, and ask the trainers of these activities how often they find a GS these days that can work successfully.....you'd be surprised. Because real vocation trainers are not picky about color or bloodlines, if the dog can and will work, they will use them. The GS is plentiful throughout the industrial nations, yet these people are having problems finding candidates, it's not because of availability....it is because most of the breed today possesses more pet traits than working traits....and it starts with nerve!

Hutchins, 
It s a very good topic and I'm glad you posted it.

If one has bred a litter from two Sch 3 or IPO 3 titled dogs of superior temperament and pedigree, the early exposure of the pups to unstable surfaces, slippery surfaces, loud noises, boisterous children, etc., should separate the questionable ones from the rest.  If not exposed to such things, it is entirely understandable if they do not readily adjust as they grow, there may be something lacking in their environment/upbringing.  Expose the pups to everything possible to give them the best start in life!

A particular personality make all of the difference in the world on how one might view a dog. HD to one person means to the vet and get hip replacement, to another to the vet, put it down, to another means shoot the dog, and yet another will let it suffer. What is right and what is wrong depends on your perspective.

To all who breed please make sure money is not the driving force. Money is involved and nothing wrong with money or the making of it, but if it is only about making money you WILL breed unworthy dogs and tell others they are good

AMEN TO THAT PAUL!
 

I prefer a dog that has been a kennel dog until 16 to 18 months old. then at that time take him out and has all of the traits I desire, then I know what it has is natural. But that being said I would not do that to any dog I owned.  I do not know for sure but I would bet most would not cut the grade.

With my Bomber puppy the first time we got to steep open backed set of stairs she slammed on the brakes I gave her a loose leash she checked it out for 5 or so seconds, took the first step paused a second, then  down the stairs, and never gave them another thought. Was she insecure? Yes but she learned on her own and conquered the perceived danger. In my opinion that was perfect. I do not want my dog to not see danger, I want her to see her prospective of danger and learn what I see as danger and decide what is real and what is not. I  do not want a dog that will chase the ball off of a cliff, they need to think.