what is your take on bi lingual dogs? - Page 4

Could you post or PM me Cirberus's pedigree?  Working on obedience and manners is definitely a good idea.  I would avoid imprinting or teaching the dog any "aggressive" commands now, even as fun.  If you do, you will probably be better off to change those commands when / if you actually start doing any type of protection work.  If you decide to attempt to do any protection work with the dog, get a skilled trainer and let him tell you when to start using the commands.  As far as commands go, it doesn't matter what words you use.  Banana or Strawberry will work as well as "packen, sic em" or what ever else you can think of.  The dog really doesn't care.  First thing is to determine whether or not the dog has the ability or desire to do any type of protection work or protection type sports.  

There is no full pedigree for Cirberus.  Rosé is an unknown.  Coza has a pedigree; nothing special though.   (Before anyone gets unpleasant, many of you have clearly explained my mistakes.  I have learned from them.)

Thanks for posting that.  I was trying to get a read on your dog and sometimes pedigrees help.  You mention that "your lack of experience with WL / high drive dogs really shows with Cirberus; " are you just making a comparison to WL dogs?  I don't recognize any working line dogs in that pedigree.  I think I misunderstood you?

...oh well... to go back to the original post....

Sunsilver, just a little correction:"lassen aus" is not a German expression, it is "aus lassen" - the command "aus" is the German word for the English "out" in Schutzhund, which would be "let go" if you will...
"aus lassen" is the process of "out-ing" in protection and a very important part of phase 3. If that doesn't work - your dog fails. If the dog does not "out" during the courage test at the Koerung, the dog fails as well.

I taught my previous dog tri-lingual - just because I had to learn French in school (long time ago) and Schutzhund commands were the only fun thing about it. I'm bi-lingual so all my dogs know German and English, not only in sport, but also at home. As I do the sport since 1981 I use only very few other commands necessary in my life with the dogs at home other than the Schutzhund commands. This not only to assure the dogs in clarity of commands, but I also want them to be free when at home, with the least amount of commands when not "working".
As an interpreter I can tell you that it is not the word, but the intonation, the sound, that makes you understand a word or a command. The intonation of commands in any language is very similar, so very easy to understand for a dog, who doesn't understand the word as such, but when used with our body language, or with certain action or in a certain situation, such as in training.

Well, it looks as if we have several dogs that are linguest ( ones which know three or more languages).  Then we have several dogs that are bilingual.  And then we have the ones which only know one language.  (Those are American dogs.)  ecs

You are correct.  Sorry for the detour on the thread.

Since dogs do not understand language I wouldn't consider any of my dogs "bilingual" even though they are all trained in English and German.  Dogs associate words (sounds), signals and intonation with actions or behaviors that they have been taught.  For example my dog understands "sit", "sitz", a "clicking" sound with mouth means sit and a hand signal means sit.  The dog will respond to these separately or in combination.  The command sitz has a very positive association and is a fast, eager sit.  I use "Fuss" for focused, up beat, happy heeling.  I use "heel" for the dog to walk next to me in the heel position but do not want or expect focus.  I use the command "easy" for the dog to walk with out pulling but not heeling.  I use "down" for the dog to lay down, "platz" means lie down and stay.  "Platz" means hit the deck and stay in that spot.  For the recall I use "come," when I want a lightning fast recall I use "Hier."  "Hier" means return to me at full speed, ears pinned back and a full sprint.  Obviously the "hier" command can not be used in the house, that is when "come" is used.  I have hand signals for all of these commands as well.  The context of the situation determines what commands I use.  My wife is only allowed to use certain commands as she will not enforce them like I would.  

I have separate commands for work and sport with my current dog.  "Such" is for footstep tracking, "track" is for work and tracking / trailing.  "Find him" for area searches and air scenting.  Completely different styles of tracking, trailing, locating each with different rituals.  I use German for article / evidence searches.  Building searches are different than "blind" searches, narcotics searches are also different.  

Do I consider my dog Bilingual?  Does my dog think he is bilingual?  No, not at all. Even though he can differentiate many commands for the same thing.  Each command carries a distinct behavior and a somewhat different response.  The dog also understands subtle changes in breathing and that can increase drive or diminish drive.  

My bitch Vida knew English and German commands - and could tell
her 'left' from her 'right' in both ! - but trying to do anything in German
with Taz results in blank looks.  Both however respond (ed) to hand
signals.  Slightly weird - Taz is slightly closer to his German 'roots'
than Vee was [ altho' really I'm someone who subscribes to the "they'll
respond to any word in any language, if you just get the TONE OF VOICE
right "  view, as long as you are consistent  !! ].  Interestingly,  I can work
Taz much better in whispers than I could Vida.