DDR, Czech and West Germany working bloodline - Page 4

First I do not like mix Sport and Work. They are not equal even so sport people like to think so and interchange or better stated equate these two terms which describe different type of dogs. 
I will answer your question:  In WHAT form of "real" work is a DDR type dog truly "easier" to train?
by one important example. The old style Czech  and/or  DDR type dogs are better in ability to protect in real life situations. They are usually easier to train in true protection ( civil)  because it is more inheritably natural for them.

Prager Hans

The DDR dogs had a huge influence on some of the West German working lines and also influenced some of the Czech lines...

Dogs that come to mind are Ingo Rudingen and some of his descendants:
Jeff Flemings Sand;
Held Ritterburg

Bero vom Friedersdorfer Flur

Titus z Pohranicni Straze - Linebred 3-5 on Ingo

Gent od Policie
Robby Glockenek ( Robby G)
Lord Gleisdreiech

Neumanns Janko

Ahron vom Granite Rose

Orry vom Haus Antwerpa ( 2 X WUSV Champ) - Querry vom Haus Antwerpa (WUSV competitor) - Tom van Leefdalhof ( WUSV Champ)- Ellute and Eros Mohnwiese ( 2 X WUSV Champ)- Como vom Bonauer Land also WUSV Champ...

That's a distant correlation to make.  Adam and Eve had a huge influence on their descendants also.  And some are better talented at one thing or another than their distant relations, too.  Just as an interesting point of observation;...Can you name ONE full sibling of ANY of those dogs listed there?  Ellute and Eros, of course, but any others?

 Here you go. :) More then one.  What is your point?

Gent od policie - Gola od policie. 
Held vom  Ritterberg- Hai, Halla, Hank, Hera, Hexe
Robby Glockenek  - Riky.
Neumann's Janko -Janka, Jim
Ahron vom Granite Rose- Aky , Aik, Amigo, Anuch, Arek, Ascha, Asco, Bea, Black, Bora, Cara, Cora , Cina < Cira, Dagy, Dona, Danger, Dany ,Dusty ,Dunja, 

...lol.....there are more police GS of Czech descent than any other line on the east coast. Today, you also find a lot of Czech/West dogs, but there is not a question among police trainers as to capability and service of Czech dogs in past 15 years. Also with the Czech/West mixes we are seeing more washouts  in police academies than ten years ago. Of course I can only speak to this side of country.

any reason for all the czech/west wash outs that are recent?

Plenty of prey, lacking in hardness and courage. Usually problems in stressful environmental  situations, surfaces, darkness, enclosed areas, venturing into unknown environment, etc. lacking in maintaining the fight when assailant fights back.......a lot of reasons. They usually do well on solid surface in daylight, especially in known areas. Unfortunately, a police service dog cannot have luxury of performing in comfortable situations.

Yes, Hans, we know they weren't alone in their litters, but how many of their siblings are very significant in today's pedigrees?  I've seen Gola and Bora in some significant pedigrees, so my "point" was nothing in particular, just an observation that no one cared much about what their siblings had to offer.  You think that means nothing?  Most of the offspring from these "greats" amounted to nothing as well.  Who cares of one or two dogs a few generations back of these sporting lines were of DDR descent.  It proves little, when producers like Eros and Ellute have contributed MANY "highly trainable" dogs, I doubt it was because of the DDR blood found in their ancestry.  I also think that close mindedness about crossing sport and working lines is only a matter of preference, yours, not mine.  I believe it adds better drive and a more trainable temperament, and especially like the results when combined with sporting lines that are known for better hardness and courage.  There are some czech lines that are known for having great drives, sure, most notably through the example of Grim.  But Grim lines have too many health issues for my liking.  I want dogs that aren't overspecialized for either work or sport, and certainly not at the expense of good health.

Daryl, I think you know what you want...and yes there are some sport bloodlines with the neccessary hardness for real life situations...
Great to see you are not comprimizing on the health which is of utmost importance...

The blood of those ancestors does really matter...
The DDR Breeding System used specially selected males from bloodlines to continue that specific line/trait...

Perhaps you had a bad experience with DDR dogs but generally those are among the best GSD's ever known...

I mean, they had nice bone structure, nice rich colours and nice heads... amazing temperaments and good natural aggression...

Yes, the dogs with good natural aggression is not always your top sport dogs...
They will do very well in tracking and relatively good obedience but the protection will be lacking points due to full grips,speed, etc.

Their protection work will be more serious but because they are not excessive on the prey side, the speed will be lacking...
The grips are generally harder but not always full because the dog is working in defence mode...
Full grips are mostly associated with prey mode...

This is all theoretical arm general blanket statement nonsense. I would not even know where to star and if I would it would be just rehashing of what was said many times here before.  
Darryl you keep upping the ante . Figure out what You want to say and then say it. instead to ad another " but" when you get an answer. 
I would like that to say that dog has not siblings which are significant thus he is also not significants without any merit. For example grate  Ingo v Rudingen was one of the most significant dogs in GSDs history and just because he does not have a siblings who would also be as significant has no bearing on his importance. That is true about many other dogs to. 
Also to say that because such dog has  health issues then he is not good is also what only a purist  theoretician would say.  
Ingo  and his descendants  is for example known to produce cryptorchidism Should we eliminate him from our breeding programs? That would not be very smart. 
As far as Grim goes can you tell me which particular health issue you are referring to. I am aware of some ( all dogs have some)  but I am curious what you would come up with.