14 week old GS pup bilaterally cryptorchid... - Page 4

Then you should post his name to alert anyone else. Or post the pedigrees. IMO this is genetic. After having a dog with this, its heartbreaking.

Hmm...Killshot, so if I understand correctly, he's willing to take THIS pup back now, and give you a different one as a replacement; but if you don't swap pups now, and the present pup is still missing the goods at 6 months of age, he'll give you nothing in renumeration?!?

I really doubt that his position would hold up in small claims court, frankly.  Even though the testicles weren't specifically discussed in your contract, that doesn't mean that there isn't an "implied warranty" that speaks to things that are 'standard equipment', as it were--using the new car analogy someone previously cited, when you buy a new car, there's no discussion about the fuel line being connected between the gas tank and the engine, or of the roof not leaking, but if either of those circumstances were discovered to exist when you took delivery on the car, the dealer would damn sure have to rectify those issues with zero financial loss to you.  You're buying a German Shepherd puppy, and since it's a male, the standard equipment is two testicles located in the scrotum where they are supposed to be; he's also supposed to have four legs, one complete tail, two ears, a tongue, and so on. A pup that is missing any of these items is 'flawed' and does not have the same monetary worth as a pup with all its standard equipment...that's just common sense. There is no question but that the pup would not have been sold at full price if the breeder had to sell him as a bilateral cryptorchid, and if you return him to the breeder, he reaps the benefit of all the work you've put into him, so he won't need to reduce the price of the pup as much as he would need to for a pup that's been kenneled for the past 14 weeks. That's just not fair.  If you were to return Luther right now, would the pup you got back in exchange have the same amount of training on it as you've put into him, or would this be a pup that's been living in a kennel run and hasn't the faintest idea about house manners and the like? The latter is significantly more likely to be the case.

If you're already attached to Luther [I know I'd be at this point!], and you like everything else about him save for the lack of external gonads, I'd just keep him, let the 6 months of age threshhold pass, and then take the breeder to small claims court to obtain a refund of the difference between the price of a bilateral cryptorchid 9 week old puppy and what you paid for this puppy.  Filing in small claims is cheap enough that I think it would be worth it to do it just to make the point. 

So, when do we get to see a picture of this little guy and his huge Irish bodyguard?

Killshot, kudos to you for keeping this little guy He will give you years of companionship and love with or wthout both testicles descended. When I was breeding I never asked a buyer to return a puppy in order to get restitution for an issue I guaranteed against. Frankly, had anyone wanted to do that after having the pup for longer than a few weeks, I'd have not wanted them to have another dog of mine anyway. I'd have just refunded the purchase price after I had the dog .I like Hexe's idea -  take the butthead to court for the difference in price.

Not sure anybody mentioned it, but a breeder CAN send a puppy with testicles descended at 8 weeks (or however old) and they can get sucked back up never to return down again.

All sorts of things can cause testicles to yoyo as well.  My 10 month old (who does have both his testicles) would pull up one or both when I bathed him.  His testicles were CLEARLY there while he was dry.  The moment he got wet?  Bye bye they went.  They'd come back down sometime during the shampoo/rinsing process :p

We kept our boy who is a great guy though bilaterally cryptorchid.  We plan on doing the orchiectomies at ~ 18 mos to give him the max benefit of the testosterone.  Here's where it all got interesting.  after many helpful comments and input from this message board, I simply agreed with the (fairly reputable) breeder here in Mpls to allow him to give me a discount on the basic K9 training he does (which is high end, contracts with many of the area law enforcement agencies, etc).  I just want some help with basic training, not a drug hound, etc.  During one of our conversations I happened to ask if there were any other litter members that were cryptorchid.  Pause. 

Breeder:  "Well, it was a small litter." 
Me:  "How small"?
Breeder:  "Only 2 other pups".
Me:  "Oh.  So the pup you picked out 'especially for me and the pick of the litter' was one of only 3?"
Breeder:  "Yes."
Me:  "Well, how are the other pups doing so far -- and male or female?"
Breeder:  "Well, uh, the other were stillborn".
Me:  "So, let me get this straight:  I sought you out after a very well known Minnesota celebrity recommends you, I request a breeding quality male, I pay you $1500 -- all up front -- for the best you have, I get a cryptorchid pup, decide to keep it, and now you tell me that my pick-of-the-litter was the ONLY pup in what is very likely a medically questionable gestation?"
Breeder:  "Yeah, I feel really bad about this."

Well, that's my story.  This dog is a great guy, and I am committed to treating him as well as I have all my hounds over the years.  But, this kind of BS deception has got to stop.  I actually fel sorry for the guy, dimwit as he is.  And I do not give a flying blip about the money.  It's the dishonesty.  Breeders reading this need to have some kind of peer review that sanctions people like this.  Not sure what my role should be in this, but after 7 great hounds (IWs, Newfs, and GSDs) over the past 40 years (we always have 2), I have never run in to this kind of "con".  And it was indeed a con.


 

Breeder:  "Yeah, I feel really bad about this."
 

Yeah, I bet he does. All the way to the bank.

You know, the guy may be an excellent trainer, but he clearly should not be breeding so much as a guppy.  If he is the former, he's going to ruin his reputation if he continues to con people in this fashion.  In a perfect world, there would be some sort of review panel that sanctioned breeders, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.  In a perfect world, the AKC would withdraw registration privileges from 'breeders' such as this for such dishonesty, but that's not going to happen either, since breeders of any stature [or lack thereof] are what funds the AKC, so long as they register their breeding stock and their litters. Were that not the case, there would be no puppy mills being able to breed AKC litters.

Killshot, glad to hear you kept Luther, since he was already a part of the family by that point, and he was shaping up to be everything you wanted save for breedable. And I still want to see pictures of him and his IW buddy...

Kudo's on keeping this puppy .

This whole story is just why my contract states that the new owner is to have their new puppy checked by their vet within 72 hours so this type of problem does not occur.
Guarantee  for both parties.
 

Yes, kudos to you for keeping this pup in spite of his issues. Shame on the breeder for what he did. He definitely sounds like con artist.