Breeding an almost 9 year old female? - Page 4

Hutchins,  I tend to agree with you;  but sadly there are people who breed a limited number of litters primarily to keep their lines going, and because they are looking to get quality pups with certain characteristics   -   and then there are others, who just want to produce lots of pups, to sell, so they feel it doesn't matter if what keeps coming out of their bitch is mediocre.

Hundmutter, you didn't mean that it's SAD that there are people who breed a limited number litters, and to keep back pups to perpetrate their line, I know. But some people might misinterpret what you intended to say. You might be suprized at how many people hang on every word they read on here, right or wrong- left or right. :)

I lack the experience, but from what I gather, the practice is two breedings back-to back and one heat to rest.  As for breeding a 9 year old female, assumng that she is an exceptional specimen and in good health, the reason can be that by that age, her progeny is well established as to what she contributes.  You may find that most of these older breedings involve very good dogs with a track record of stamping their better traits on their offspring.  Thus, chance is less of a variable here.  As to the process, I'd venture that it would require a closer eye on things and a tighter rein on exercise, nutrition, etc.  The down side may be in smaller litters or a higher risk of surgical birth, but usually these breedings are not made for purely commercial reasons, but possibly as a last chance to keep a pup to extend that breeder's line.

OOOps!  Quite so, Joanro.  See what you mean, when I read through it again.
Of course, what I meant was the 'sad' part was the second half of the sentence, that some people will
breed and breed and breed from a bitch just to keep puppies popping out for the market;  no concerns
about quality, or the health of the bitch.  Nothing sad or bad about wanting the odd properly planned
litter.  I can think of circumstances where I might choose to breed 'back to back' myself - say if you had
a really healthy bitch who'd been a wonderful mum but only had one or two pups in the first litter, I
can see an argument for getting her pregnant again next season.  But it is not something I would turn
into a habit;  I think her body should ideally have a rest in between;  one way to MAINTAIN her in excellent
health.
 

As for Charlie's contribution:  again, there is a difference between experienced breeders continuing to use
an older bitch who is already well proven, and the anonymous hundreds just over-using any bitch.
[I believe Palme W went on till quite late; but not everyone has a bitch like that.]

I got it, Hundmutter :) But I at first was taken aback..then after re-reading, I know what you were saying, and I agree with.

  GOOD posts on the subject.

 I think Charlie picked up on one fact I left out...MOST breeders who do breed up to 9yrs old..do not breed without a REST....back to back  2 times rest  then 2   rest
 like the Texas 2 step...

   I was speaking of well bred females that do type to the progheny and one more litter for the final lend to our breed.

   In every litter, you do not get a total litter of what you may want to achieve. YOU may get 2 or 3 pups for your keeping...or you may get more. THE breeder who carefully does this, usually keeps what they find at that time and then train it , sell it later

 I was gonna address the very high cost of breeding correctly but that is another thread.

  YR

Playing devils advocate I could forsee a scenario where it would be understandable.

IF the female was in perfect health and had not produced litters of progressively less quality here is a scenario.

If I had a female that lets say twice with the same male produced champions,  I would consider it but only to that male.  When I say produced champion I am referring to a highly sought after stud.  In addition the litter would have had several well known quality siblings that have contributed to the breed.

With that scenario I would consider it.  Not only as a way to keep a very strong line going providing many options for the next decade, but also as a contribution to the breed as a whole.

So yes, under the right conditions with health first priority, I could see myself considering it.

Odds are 99% of us will never have that scenario, so very unlikely it would ever happen.  But you never know.

Another devil's advocate scenario for you to consider:

Why would someone want to breed a bitch on every heat, and continue to do so until she's a senior dog and finally fails to conceive?  Aside from the financial motivation, which I believe all are in agreement with it being a powerful one? 

Consider this: you have a female who meets every standard established for the breed; she's everything you could ask for in a bitch, medium-sized, quick, agile, as near perfection in structure as possible, whelps easily and without the need for help, is a terrific mother who holds her condition before, during, and after the pregnancy.  When bred to stud dogs from bloodline X--or even just when bred to a specific male--virtually every pup in every litter is likewise as near perfection as possible in every way, and which produce just like their mother when they come of age. 

If you had a bitch like that, who clicked like that with either a specific male, or even better yet with a particular line, why WOULDN'T you want to have her produce as many of her offspring as possible, given the benefit those offspring will be to the breed in general, and to their owners in particular, as long as she was healthy and strong and remained in excellent condition? 

BTW, another point to consider re breeding at each cycle:  It is routinely recommended that bitches which have experienced, and were successfully treated for, pyometra should be bred on every cycle until such time as the owner decides to spay her--leaving her open during a cycle presents a much greater risk for another bout with pyometra than a bitch that has never been affected.  In that situation, it is actually BETTER for the health of the bitch if she's bred each heat if she isn't going to be spayed. 

Hexe - I can see what you mean;  but we don't know if the bitch in the OPs question IS such a (rare) paragon, that would justify it ?
Re: pyo - again, there are more bitches that the only way they've been cured is to spay them, surely ?
So it would be difficult to get enough of a sample to know whether this really works out ?