can untained dogs really protect? - Page 4

Well, donald, as I stated my dog is not a trained protection dog; however, if you came close to attacking myself or my dog (who was barking trying to alert me to you,) you'd be met with my 1911 or one of my many other little friends. I never said my dog was a protection dog.  My dog is a deterrent.  My firearms (and my ability to use them more than effectively) are my protection.

You said he was "protective."  If he's not a dog upon whom you rely for physical protection - which is what's being discussed here, not dogs that bark at strangers - then I don't understand what your initial post was about.

As most my dogs have always been used for some type protection work, I wouldn't use the term " training" but giving the dog the opportunity to make  bites on intruders. If the dogs don't have it in them you can't train it in them, to any degree of reliability even in cop dogs. I look for dogs that have the want to and have the heart for it, not just a dog that will do it because I want him to. Obedience is the training they need. Opportunity is their reward.

Hank

Though I agree that a truly stable dominant GSD that would fight, not just bite, not just growl, in the face of an attack and not back down without training is rare, they do exist.  I had one.  I saw him during a carjacking and in the face of heightened aggression he brought it all to the table.  There is not one doubt in my mind that he would have killed the carjacker or died trying.  Fortunately, the jacker realized that too.  Not one single doubt that dog would not back off or back down, in fact when faced with pain or pressure, he always, ALWAYS moved forward.  Will I find another dog like that in my lifetime...I hope I have, but that I do not know.  And as good as my dogs are now, I would not be surprised if I do not ever find it again.  Of course the dogs I have now are being trained so whatever fight they have will be honed, and whatever confidence they have will be elevated, so guess I will never really know with my new boys how much was training and how much genetics.  However, I did look for dogs that came from parents that already were street proven in life or death fights.

"Its a romantic idea that there's someone out there thats got your back."

Ronin, I want to believe in romance.  Never found it in a human male yet though.  I always say the day I meet a man that has the loyalty, courage, heart and unselfish love that my GSD has is the day I might consider getting married again. AND then only MIGHT..lol  

They don't exist hunger, your chances of finding a dog that will protect without training is much higher.

Since this has gone way beyond the original question, (can untained dogs really protect?).

I would say this to the majority of people who read it,
training a dog to attack is risky behavior and much liability follows.

In this day and age when dogs are being declared dangerous and attempts made to ban breeds I think this kind of training is more often counter productive and unnecessary for most people who own the larger breed dogs.

The answer to the original question is yes, but not always.

A lot depends on the relationship you have with your dog and I'm not talking any given breed.
The most important training is obedience so that in any situation you have control over your animal.

Attack or protection training is fine for the experienced individual but not for the majority out there who want a social animal.

As a point of fact, I have seen plenty of trained dogs turn tail and run from a serious fight.
If your life depends on it, I suggest you learn to protect yourself and consider your dog to be nothing more than notice.


I have more concern for the dogs than ego's.


Moons.

If your life depends on it, I suggest you learn to protect yourself and consider your dog to be nothing more than notice.


How very true. 
 

Excellent thread!!  I lot of great things said from what appears to be  years of experience.  If someone broke into my house my dogs would bark and be freaked out.  I dont think they would charge and bite buy its possible.  If they were cornered they would bite for sure, that I know.  If anyone really wants to know have someone with a suite walk in your house and see what happens. 

I have two friends each with show line females.  One is a schutzhund III who is a nasty bitch on the field but I can walk right in her house or walk up to her car and open the door.  The other has never done any bitework, some OB and she will and has biten when someone comes to the house.  She will actually lunge, snarl, and bite without hesitation, until she sees her master invite the person in.   She is much worse when he is home. 

 

The more I think of it the more complicated it becomes, here is how I analyze it:

there is a difference between a dog defending itself when attacked personally and in this case the threat is clear to the dog,  and a dog not threatened personally but its owner is and here the threat might be perceived by the dog and might not.

in relation to the topic:
Untrained dog is to perceive the threat to its owner first and only then it can make up its mind/ or just act on impulse (instinct) and step in and does defend the owner.
For untrained dog to step in and defend there should be strong bond with its owner.

To realise the difference between untrained and trained dog, here are some reasons why an untrained dog might fail to protect its owner:

1. dog does not perceive the threat.
2. dog does not have enough bond with owner.
3. dog does not think/know it is supposed to.
4. dog does not have enough courage.
5. dog does not see it has a chance to win.

Well proper training can teach/enhance a well bred dog on all above 5 points and make the chances of a dog to step in more probable.

For me I would love my dog to has it in him to protect me without training but it will not be my plan A for my personal protection.
If it were professionally trained to do PP and is tested, only then I may consider it my A plan for protection. 

Ibrahim