Advice from Vet on joint protection? - Page 4

Noddi
Yes' start at a young Puppy stage as i have done i think it pays off in the long run if however the Pup was born with defective joints it will not cure it but it can help the dog somewhat.
Whatever it will do the Pup or Dog no harm that is proven fact by my own dogs over the years this is good info from a Prick and a Crabby Old Man any more suggestions as to my character would be welcomed specially from the faceless people who email each other about the likes of me on here, better to get it out in the open than to disguise what you really think
Steve1

"there is sufficient peer-reviewed data documenting the efficacy of chondroprotectants such as chonodroitin and glucosamine in dogs and horses to warrant using them in those two species"

I have read that Type II Collagen is significantly more effective than Chonodroitin and Glucosamine (with Chonodrotin being more effective than Glucosamine).  The reality is that race horses have been using this stuff for quite a while and the results are backed up with Peer Reviewed studies. MSM (methyl sulfonyl methane) is another proven supplement with Peer Reviewed results.  Its is also used in Race Horses.

As was also stated supplementing Salmon oil with Omega 3 and 6 seems to be better than doing nothing.  In my experience with other large breed dogs, I have found serving them real human grade food over the course of thier whole lives, while keeping them lean and fit, seems to keep them healthy and active well into the early teens (10-14 years).  I haven't tried these items all at once yet, but I suspect that a dog eating human grade food, with supplements, kept lean, regularly engaged in endurance based low-impact excersise, will result in a fit and active dog that is well into the geriatric age ranges for thier breed.  I also have seen first hand that dogs who are spayed/neutered later in life seem to have few if any health problems in old age when compared to dogs that were spayed/neutered at less than a year old.  

Steve1/UVW - you should really take Vixen's comments below seriously. The banter between the two of you is exactly why I don't take much of anything from this forum seriously but look from time to time just for the shear entertainment value. Some people like Vixen are serious about hearing the opinions of other so they can take it all in and make an educated decision. Unfortunately these posts typically degrade to the type of crap going on between the two of you. If you cannot respect the opinions and experiences of others then keep yours to yourself and take your digs at each other somewhere other than this forum. It just goes to show that growing older does not necessarily correlate with growing up.


Well said Vixen.
Collating information personally, plus professional guidance, and awareness of experiences from other Owners, helps individuals broaden their minds, change their minds, or stick to their original ideas. When we feel confident in a chosen path with dogs, that is great and fulfilling, and enables us to share aspects with others.  Equally when we need further information to conclude our own thoughts, feelings and input, it is helpful and appreciated to hear the personal experiences from a variety of sources.

 

GSDdrive1
I gave my opinion to Vixen and it was good advice, i was merely telling uvw who scathingly downed all joint supplements without any prior knowledge of using them that i will not put up with without commenting on
As for yourself who are you to be so arrogant as to tell others what to do are you in charge of this forum or what after only 22 posts.
If you do not like what you read then thats easy, bugger off and if not i will be watching to see what input you depart on this forum in the future, You talk the big talk we will see how it goes and i will be sure to remind you at some later date
Steve1 

What does the above banter have to do with the original posted request for feedback on supplements?  I'll re-state my on topic response below:

I have read that Type II Collagen is significantly more effective than Chonodroitin and Glucosamine (with Chonodrotin being more effective than Glucosamine).  The reality is that race horses have been using this stuff for quite a while and the results are backed up with Peer Reviewed studies. MSM (methyl sulfonyl methane) is another proven supplement with Peer Reviewed results.  Its is also used in Race Horses.

As was also stated supplementing Salmon oil with Omega 3 and 6 seems to be better than doing nothing.  In my experience with other large breed dogs, I have found serving them real human grade food over the course of thier whole lives, while keeping them lean and fit, seems to keep them healthy and active well into the early teens (10-14 years).  I haven't tried these items all at once yet, but I suspect that a dog eating human grade food, with supplements, kept lean, regularly engaged in endurance based low-impact excersise, will result in a fit and active dog that is well into the geriatric age ranges for thier breed.  I also have seen first hand that dogs who are spayed/neutered later in life seem to have few if any health problems in old age when compared to dogs that were spayed/neutered at less than a year old.  

There are a few different types of glucosamine, the best thing you can do is give your dog the 2 best kinds...Glucosamine Sulfate and Glucosamine HCI, the very best I have found is called K9 Liquid Health 5000, it is not cheap but it has both types of glucosamine, also Chondroitin, MSM, it also has boswellisa serreta which has been used for centuries as an anti-inflammatory Bromelain and grape seed extract, the inactive ingredients are not too bad either!  It's an amazing product...things like Cosequin, low potency and it doesn't have extra stuff in it to help the joints.  K9 liquid health also has a something called Fido nutrient but like most if not all multi vitamins it never has enough of everything in it.

Yucca is great, look into Azmira's products  there are different types of Yucca as well.....there are SO many things that can help your pup.

Look into seaweed blend as well, it is a phenomenal supplement, can prevent cancer, and so much more...

Vitamin C and E is great, get Azmira's Super C powder,5000mg per teaspoon I think it is. 

Also get Probiotics (Probios), Enzymes (Prozyme), Kelp (Wholistic Seablend from k9power) and salmon oil (wholistic salmon oil also from k9power.com.  Probiotics, enzymes, kelp, salmon oil, Vitamin C, all so cheap...initial cost is pricey but it lasts a long time.

Visit my website www.vonharasymtzuk.com  under health there is a lot of information about kibble, and some supplements, not done with it just been so busy.

Vixen an old remedy that works if arthiritis already set in is nettle tea - not sure what country you are in or if you have nettles there
soak dried nettles in boiling water, strain off and put the tea into the food

Regards all those clever people on here who know better than the rest of us it seems on most or all subjects to do with these Dogs we keep and work and that includes those who down joint supplements as no use or not needed even when they have never tried them themselves on there own dogs, so how is it that they can comment on there use. Me'as said  have used joint supplements for a very long time for my dogs from 8 week old Puppies to adulthood, So i do know if there is any benefits or not because if you buy a top supplement it is not cheap, there are of course cheaper ones out there but i have never used them myself.
So why do i use them.
Well the main reason is that overall the supplement helps in the formation and repair of the cartilage which is very important to a growing puppy and for older dogs which may have pulled or strained a joint when working we can expand on that but that alone is good enough explanation to use it
Finally nothing to do with dogs but is basically the same
Earlier last year my brother was sending his dog around the blind when the line caught around his left Ankle, The speed of the dog took him of his feet and he went down taking his weight on his left knee.
Thinking nothing of it when he got up except for a bit of pain in the leg he carried on working his dog, however time went by and the knee got worse finally he could not stand the pain he was getting and went to his doctor who sent him to a specialist, after many tests it was decided his knee was shot and an operation of a complete new knee was needed. So he had the Operation performed by the very best in his field in Belgium, But guess what, He was prescribed Tablets to help strengthen the cartilages and what not after the Operation it was in fact a joint supplement,
So what it seems is that according to some of the people against joint supplements for Dogs would also think the same with humans there is no difference, so if they are correct then this highly rated Surgeon does not know what he is talking about.
What i do not like is when Guys on here down a thing when they know sweet FA about it. Why do they do it i guess to cause friction and they thrive on it, But in reality they read up things or in this scenario nothing at all and more or less put it word for word on here it is not done by practical experience over many years yet they blatantly laugh at people who have tested it for years like myself and some idiots without anything better to do join them. That speaks volumes for there non abilities and know how with dogs in general.
But they are such people nothing will change them they do not have the backbone or brains to realise what idiots they make of themselves by the way they talk about some subjects regarding these dogs, and i am not talking about slagging each other off, i am talking about the way this thread has gone down with one or two of them, and the negative attitude shown

Steve1

Ah, another day on the database.  I can guarantee for a fact that these supplements do work, not only have I been studying animal nutrition for 5 years but I've used them on my dogs, need to think outside of the box.  K9 Liquid Health 5000 is by far the best glucosamine/chondroitin/msm supplement I have found for dogs, (If someone knows of something better, I'd like to learn about it) but aside from that there are other things out there, not just glucosamine and vitamins abcdefghijklmnop there is much more out there, Vitamin C does have scientific facts supporting it's benefits for joints, even new studies are showing that HD is not purely genetic but think about what grows right here on our planet, there are simply too many things to list....I've talked to breeders and a lot of their "newer" Shepherds are not living nearly as long as what they used to, many are dying at 10 instead of 14-15, a lot of people remain uneducated about what's really in their dog's food, they don't believe in it, or they just don't care to spend the money (then don't buy dogs if you aren't going to do the absolute best for them)  Do some research, you will find that there are too many herbs to list that help with joints, among other things that may save your dog's life.  My dogs never get sick, until recently my girl had some trouble in labor but that is a different story, not a single still born in 6 years (up until this weekend when the vet techs took me for a fool) bright red placentas always, my dogs live a long time, point is...the stuff works.  I'll be honest, this database scares the hell out of me if I express my opinions, people can be very cruel, but I have met some good people here and I enjoy offering advice when I can and learning from people who post, I'm not a know it all, I learn something new everyday .... there are a lot of things out there that can help this dog, other dogs, and our dogs but it aint going to happen by fighting all the time.  Express your opinion, defend your reputation if you must, but there is truly no point in arguing, what do you gain out of it?  Why does everything have to turn into a fight?  Don't answer that.

Phew... okay, I'm done. 

Very well said von Harasymtzuk. "I'll be honest, this database scares the hell out of me if I express my opinions, people can be very cruel, but I have met some good people here and I enjoy offering advice when I can and learning from people who post. This forum can be a very useful tool for anyone seeking informaton.  Opinions are going to differ no matter what the topic. There is always a way to defend your position by offering additional information to support your argument. Nothing is gained by angry, derogatory responses.