any ever deal with this breeder? - Page 4

i prefer real working dogs over dogs who are titled.  i dont really care about breeding thats done for a political standard when thats not what im looking for.  when i looked before dogs were listed as working dogs and had OFA's.  i knew that i didnt agree with everything they were doing but if i am dead set on waiting until i find a breeder with the exact same opinions as me then im pretty sure i may be looking forever.  i think everyone is always learning and thats a good thing for if we stop learning and just push our ideas on everyone else with out listening then we get stagnant and stuck.  so yep i have a lot of learning to do thank you

For the most part, claims of "real working dogs" in lieu of any working titles is a cop out.

"AS THE CAPT. STATED, SPORT IF USED WRONG, AND IT IS, IS DETRIMENTAL TO OUR CAUSE" - when I read this in Max's book I assumed he meant sport as in hunting i.e. country & field sports. I'm not entirely sure Schutzhund was classed as a sport in his day.

However, having said that, using schutzhund only as a sport might still have the same sentiment applied... but thats another discussion entirely.

AandA

I purchased a puppy from Loyal Heart German Shepherd over a year ago.  Tammie was extremely honest and open during the whole purchase process.  The puppy I purchased has been excellent and exactly as Tammie predicted with her temperament testing. He is excelling in his police Service Dog training. Tammie has maintained contact with me since my purchase, and has even sent Max presents a various times (toys and a very nice long lead). She is most definitely not a puppy mill, and I believe she truly has the betterment of the breed at heart.  I did not know Tammie prior to my purchase, but because of her honesty and integrity during the purchase process and since, I now consider her a friend.  The fact that her interest in my pup continued beyond the sale speaks volumes in my book.  I would( and have recommended) her as a breeder.  If anyone has any questions about my experience with Loyal heart German shepherd or Tammie, please fee free to personal message me. Or commnt here and I will reply for all to see.

Sincerely,

Doug Wright (Sooner Shepherd)

Comments, concerns, and any general information you guys have about this kennel? I started another thread about it, but it was not getting as much traffic as I would like...

www.omorrow.com

bmartin, to better the breed is not getting a sch title . the betterment of the breed is from breeding dogs that will work. sch is a sport and not many of the sch class dogs are suitable for most work.some are switch hitters and can do both but not many.
 why? because the sch is done needing high prey drives and that is what sch breeders breed for . a working dog is bred with as close to equal drives as possible.
 i have nothing against sch people. i have friends that pratice sch and they are good people. they do it as a sport and it takes up their dead time.
 martin, i almost forgot. all dogs imported don't have titles and the reason for importing is not always for sport. i have never imported a dog for titles . i  imported for the bloodlines they have and hoped that they would give me what i wanted ,good hard working dogs which i have accomplished.
i am  not going to get in an argumental discussion on this matter. you have your way of seeing things and ,as a breeder, i see things as i know them.

bbb, don't be in a hurry is my best advice. I know what you're saying, and I have a couple ideas for you on people who do breed like what I think you're asking for, but in the interest of not further hijacking this thread, PM me if you want to get names; I don't want to make suggestions in the midst of this thread because I don't want their names associated w/this thread on an internet search. I do think you have some learning to do yet before you decide on a kennel/dog, as Keith said, and I think you would be smart to take your time and talk to people about what you honestly want. Don't overstate your experience, and make sure whatever breeder you choose takes the time to make you feel comfortable. 

Keith, you are probably right in sheer numbers of times that allegation is made, but there are also many times when dogs who really are "true" working dogs in every sense (even go to work every day and provide a valuable service to handler) are pooh-poohed because they aren't sport titled. It can go both ways. More often than not, it goes the way you described, but not always. 

"She is most definitely not a puppy mill, and I believe she truly has the betterment of the breed at heart."

Doug, I am glad that you are happy with your dog and it's good to hear that Tammie keeps in touch with some of her puppy buyers but really?  She has three litters due this month, at least one to a bitch that appears not to yet be two years old and at least two of which have no OFA certification.  Your dog's mother was also bred at just under 18 months, also with no OFA certification.  Niceties like working titles, show ratings, breed surveys, etc. aside, can you explain to me, please, how you can come to the conclusion that someone who is routinely breeding females who are not even yet mature themselves and don't even have the most rudimentary health clearances even hints at "betterment of the breed"?

All,

I am going to start a thread about breeding w/o titles and other needed certifications etc as to stop the BS from swelling this thread more than it already is. 

Sable,

I think you have misinterpreted my comments as SPORT is KING, and that is definately not the case.  Perhaps in the other thread (which I will start shortly) we can continue our discussion in the same civil manner which we have already started... I dont want my comments to come off like Im arguing, because that isn't the case at all ;)

Keith

My preference would be to not breed until 2 yrs. with a full OFA.  However, breeding below that age with prelims. is permissable.  The SV set the lower limit at 20 months for females. I didn't say  this was a perfect kennel.  I know a lot of kennels that follow all the rules (OFA, age, titles) that are crap, because they lack any true passion or caring for dogs in general or the breed as a whole.  To me someone who is passionate and caring about dogs and the breed will correct whatever mistakes they make early in a breeding career and will be far better off for the breed than an uncaring  greedy person who only seeks financial gain or glory on the sport field.

Some very good dogs have been produced by young females without titles and with the right drives.
An example: Harras Vom Lippersrand (age 2 ) at the birth of Flora Berkeyer who was 2 when she produced V Bianka Von Reibekenberg.  This female was then bred to a male creating offspring with a 2-2 line breeding on one male and was also line bred on 12 different dogs. 

The product of this ridiculous breeding was Ch Erich von Grafenwerth