First litter born since feeding totally raw food - Page 4

Thanks Jenni, I just got rid of the 20 yr. old dog, I knew I didn't word that correctly,
but as long as I can spell shepherd right, that's all I care about....that's one that gets to me
Those smiley faces all look so evil, what's up with that

Ronin,
  Thank you for mentioning that, "You are what you eat" that's so true....
A human can smoke, drink, eat fast food, take drugs, all they want maybe cause they choose to,
the dog doesn't have that choice, they trust us..



 Remember the dog that was in the news, he was euthanized only to come back to life the next day cause he had a high tolerance of all the drugs used in the dead animal carcases they put in our pet food....

Yum! Yum!

i feed a raw kibble mix and my girly had 10 pups that where 1 to 2 lbs at birth and now at 6 weeks are 13 15 lbs from smallest to biggest boy. and they arnt fat very healthy. mom never got thin or drained as i have seen. puppies where born with shiny dark little coats and its staying that way im scared to see how big my pups will be if i go all raw o.o my first litter was on kibble the pups where all below a lb and at 8 weeks where 10 lbs haha

LOL Ronin -pure luck doesn't match the statistics.  I've been breeding since 1995.  16 years - and let's see total about 60 litters.  ALL on kibble - both  mothers and puppies.  NONE on raw.  ALL have been 100% perfect in health, coat, condition, recovery, puppy weight, puppy growth, ease of natural whelping, etc.  Working dogs achieving multiple Schh3 titles and retiring at 9 years old from National-level competitions.  Dogs living without health problems, allergies, coat and skin problems, sound and healthy until their teenage years. 

Not to mention I have MANY very elderly dogs boarding here (several 16-18 years old) who have been on "crap" kibble - ie Beneful, Old Roy, Science Diet, Dads, Kibbles and Bits, soft packaged "burger" food.... for their entire lives.

As I said, I challenge anyone who feeds raw to compare their dogs to mine in longevity, coat/skin condition, energy level, weight and condition, whelping naturally and recovery, vet bills, etc.  Mine will probably win that challenge.

Nothing to do with luck.  You choose to feed raw and that's fine.  I choose to feed Kibble and my dogs are absolutely thriving on it and always have, including my pregnant and nursing mother dogs.  In fact I would never consider feeding raw unless I have a dog with a specific food allergy, which I don't have so no need to think about it.

molly

100% perfect, eh? 60 litters of 100% perfect puppies in every way?  WOW! 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I guess health is, too. I have seen lots of dogs whose owners thought they looked great and I thought they looked like absolute shit. What looks great or good enough to one looks like the bare minimum to others and vice versa. People often don't notice what's lacking UNTIL they see what "could" be. Not saying Molly's dogs don't look ok, but I would put my pups up against any kibble-fed pups any day. Do what you want, but don't make totally outlandish claims like "100% perfect" since 1995???? Just sounds ridiculous. 

Additionally, I have seen huge differences in the pups whose owners continued to feed raw as opposed to the owners who fed kibble exclusively. Ears, growth rates and awkward phases, etc.....totally different in my experience. 

I just had a board/train dog go home today. We were talking and Caleb's age came up. The owner thought she misunderstood me because she couldn't believe he was that old. Her dog looks twice his age, and in fact, he is twice her dog's age. She naturally asked why he looks like that- free of a single gray hair, gorgeous coat, excellent muscle, lean physique, and a "something" extra that you can't quite articulate. Guess what? She's switching her dog's food now after looking at all my dogs compared to her much younger dog. Is her dog "ok"? Yeah. But is he thriving? Not in my opinion. 

I don't think it's as simple as longevity; it's QUALITY of life. Maybe they only get an extra few months, but if they have one less ailment, isn't that enough reason? I think it's especially despicable when people who make a living off their dogs don't see to it that they receive the absolute best of everything. 

My dogs are in PERFECT coat, condition, health and they prove it over and over again by the litters they whelp and sire, and the work they do.  I work ALL of my dogs, and even the older ones lead a very active lifestyle.  Kibble food.

and as I said - you can't get too much older than 16-18 years old.  MANY dogs, boarding here, that age, no health problems (other than age-related), on Kibbles and Bits.  Dogs with the most gorgeous coats possible to have come in here, and I ask what they are feeding them - Science Diet or Old Roy.  My own dogs have lived to 14-16 years old fed Dog Chow (before I became better educated in dog food choices)  I have a chocolate lab 15 years old, a 16 year old Weimeraner, 18 year old dachshund, 18 year old chow mix, 14 year old yellow lab (several of those) - and so on - ALL on basic grocery-store bought dog food kibble.  NONE on raw.  ALL doing very well despite their ages.  Still plugging along with few health problems requiring a vet other than normal age-related supplements.

I have never in 16 years had a problem with a litter of puppies, mother dog recovering or whelping naturally/recovering, or coat/condition due to feeding kibble food.   My females don't "blow their coat" during nursing, they maintain their beautiful coats even through their normal coat-blows.  Puppies are never nutritionally defecient or lacking in size, weight or health due to diet.  Better?

Yes I would put my kibble-fed dogs up against a raw-fed dog anytime.  You wouldn't be able to tell which ones were fed raw or kibble.  As long as the raw diet-dogs are on a balanced raw diet that is.  

Because I have seen MANY nutritionally defecient puppies and adults fed raw - people not educated enough to be sure the raw diet was balanced - feeding puppies raw when they are too young to properly chew/digest it - dogs with terrible coat/skin condition - especially on a pre-made raw food made on this side of the country - I could pick out a ____ raw fed dog from 100 yards away judging on their coat condition and obvious "itchies". 

Kibble it is, for me - you guys can have the raw, if I have not seen the benefit of it for myself in so many years of working, breeding, raising my own puppies and being involved in dog sport then I'm very sure I'm not going to see the benefit now.

molly

" 16 years - and let's see total about 60 litters."

I knew you were doing some serious damage, but JEEZE. And you're bragging about puppymilling? I can rescue til I'm blue in the face and never put a DENT in that.  How many grandprogeny do you have? Wow.

Hey how many individuals in the 60 litters are titled? I mean, that has to total roughly 300 puppies. How many of them titled? I'd really like to know, seriously. I mean, I have two whole litters, and the litter of five, who are adults now--well, one is titled and two others will be trialing soon. So assuming they pass, my average is 60%; if they don't, I'm still looking at 20%. How many of your progeny are titled? 

" My dogs are in PERFECT coat, condition, health and they prove it over and over again by the litters they whelp and sire, and the work they do.  I work ALL of my dogs, and even the older ones lead a very active lifestyle.  Kibble food."

WOW. You must be RICH to afford all that help. Either that or skinny as a stick from walking what? ten dogs a mile a day each? That's not even all that active. You say VERY active. And I've never heard of one other living soul who could produce 60 litters of PERFECT dogs. Jeeze. You need to write books so we can all do as well. 

Oh but that is why you are the Breed Warden. UScA loves a puppymiller. Not a puppy miller? WTH do you call someone who has 60 litters if not a puppy miller? (Of course, that only counts the GSDs.)

"MANY dogs, boarding here, that age, no health problems (other than age-related), on Kibbles and Bits.  Dogs with the most gorgeous coats possible to have come in here, and I ask what they are feeding them - Science Diet or Old Roy.  My own dogs have lived to 14-16 years old fed Dog Chow (before I became better educated in dog food choices)"

So...they get fabulous coats and extreme ages on Kibbles and Bits or Dog Chow but for some reason that isn't good enough for you? You have to get better educated on dog food? Why? With all those dogs doing so well on garbage? Hell, I think you found the fountain of Dog Youth. Don't mess up all those perfect dogs now.

"I have never in 16 years had a problem with a litter of puppies, mother dog recovering or whelping naturally/recovering, or coat/condition due to feeding kibble food."

And how would you know exactly why your dams did have problems? Do they have like tickertape readouts? This problem is caused by X and the other problem by Y? God knows that's more scientific than, say, extensive research over long periods of time. Your dogs SAID that any problems they had were not kibble related, right?

" Because I have seen MANY nutritionally defecient puppies and adults fed raw - people not educated enough to be sure the raw diet was balanced - feeding puppies raw when they are too young to properly chew/digest it - dogs with terrible coat/skin condition - especially on a pre-made raw food made on this side of the country - I could pick out a ____ raw fed dog from 100 yards away judging on their coat condition and obvious "itchies". "

Oh right. You have seen all your puppies grown up and contrasted them with equal numbers of grown puppies who were fed raw. Right? I mean, in order to properly compare, you are going to have to contrast your 300 puppies with 300 fed raw. You did that, right? In order to come up with your scientific findings?

I am not taking sides on this.... just wanted to comment on the 60 litters in 16 years... that is 3.75 litters a year.  Thats really not that many litters per year.

NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC....
Mirasmom.. Congrats on the 2 litters. Your pups look great. Nice and healthy. Thanks for posting the pictures.

Exactly my point! Although.....if that's your actual JOB, it's isn't too much. Of course, my job seems to be finding fantastic dogs like the one below that are dumped in pounds. 

Of course, Jyl, point taken. Off topic. But only responding to a previous post, and after all I AM talking about raw feeding.

Mirasmom, how do you get the yarn to stay on? My bitch chewed them off no matter what I did.

They are so cute - glad they are all healthy and thriving - I don't know how you can do it with 2 sets of pups at the same time AGGGHHH !! :)  Vom Marischal (and others on this board) helped me with Kai many months ago re: raw and he has grown to be a healthy, handsome, pup (11 mos) :)