What causes a "roach back"? - Page 4

But wouldnt the correct thing to do to show rear drive is to work on strenthening rear drive. Since my female is mostly Am. showlines I have always been concerned about rear drive. So I regularly do workouts with her to build up her rear drive. Ex. I have her run hills. I am a track and field buff so I am big on running hills  for this purpose. Seems to me alot of breeders breeding for this are just making shortcuts and do things to appear correct but dont try to work to actually make those things correct. Some of these dogs appear to have rear drive but I dont think they actually do. A dog should have it not just look like he does.
Reggie

Ibrahim I wasnt responding to you. You have been on topic. And Bob I sent the last response before I saw your posts so not in response to what you wrote. Bob I wasnt sure if it is all credited to bad breeding but that is what I thought. Never thought about it not being something you see in nature. It doesnt seem natural. If a dog as good gait but what I call weak legs then no rear drive no matter how it looks.
Reggie

Bob  what about the OP saying the dog that started him thinking about this came from parents and siblings that didnt have roach back. Wouldnt it have to be a genetic thing somewhere that got built on?
Reggie

 Maybe the safest is to breed to standard and avoid faulty dogs. As I often hear here there is no perfect dog, some have serious faults and some have minor ones. I have a dog with somewhat weak pasterns and hooks and I plan to strengthen those two weaknesses. He is not a nice trotter but he can run fast and makes excellent turns and jumps fine. I think it is a dilema to combine beautiful structure plus beautiful trot plus health plus substance plus strong character plus required drives plus...., somewhere there is a big chance of loosing a chain or two. 

Ibrahim

Thanx misbeeb I am gonna watch that, I can imagine what you are saying. Ibrahim I dont know if I am ready to say my dog also has week pasterns and hocks but I also want to strenthen them. I take her favorite ball on a rope ( i only use for training no "playing") and throw it a good way up a hill while she is on sit and stay then after a few seconds release her. That is the lazy way, I have also started running them with her that motivates her when she starts to get a little tired. And I also could use my pasterns and hocks strengthened lol. Are there any physical negatives of roach back  to the dog. i would imagine spine issues. Is that correct assumption.
Reggie

 I am not aware of any disadvantages of a roached back other than not pleasing to the eye and of course since standard calls for a straight back there should be a valid reason for that. I know a sagging back is a weakness, a pregnant female with a sagging back should be under extra strain.
Health wise there could be some consequences for a roached dog maybe someone here can shed some light on that. What I observe is healthy well structured dogs may still produce unhealthy and less structured offspring and that makes it more difficult I believe for breeders, I think some breeders are not really with bad intentions, maybe they're just unlucky after doing their research.

Ibrahim

This is what I was told by an "old timer". Take it for it is worth and what it cost.

The curve started out presented as a stronger back. (IMO only, probably someone in power produced an excellent dog with a curved back and promoted this new idea).

As is human nature, if a little is good, then more is better. The dogs with these "stronger" backs began placing and the breeders began selecting for this trait. It finally got so out of hand that very grotesque dogs were being produced and accepted in the show ring.

I do feel that the SV now works to correct this extreme, as can be seen in the placings. It cannot happen overnight.

I like and choose the s/l. I very much do not like the "roach". But this is an external issue that is very obvious and I choose to deal with. Coming from the Am. s/l with perfect straight backs and internal issues that cannot be seen, the "roach" is a minor issue to me.

How about this dog for those who comment endlessly on this subject.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/567837.html

If you are into s/l, then put your efforts into producing what you feel is correct, instead of offering up endless diatribes on what you see as wrong.

JMO,
Rik