IMMUNE PROBLEMS IN OUR BREED - Page 4

Sorry won't let me see all my post to edit - will do later Where it states white cells were down to 8% should read RED cells

Zeigenfarm,
Excellent post!!  I think if people could see the correlation between nerves and health issues especially immune sytem derived problems, they would be enlightened.  Just wanted you to know there are some that understand the importance of nerves to this issue.

gustav,
the videx link/article touched on this briefly as well. 
yes,i know you understand these issues.  i always enjoy reading your
posts.  our thinking has been on the same path many times :)
pjp

 Along the lines of nerve/immune issues, etc............who's to say what came first, the chicken or the egg? Do "thin nerves" cause other issues, or are they simply another symptom of a weaker animal as a whole? We know there are health problems that manifest in behavior, we know that rabies vaccines can cause nervousness, aggression, and similar symptoms, so why is not possible that it's more of a vicious cycle phenomenon than a case where genetically weak nerves are causing the immune and other health problems? We have, over many years, weakened dogs to an inexcusable level, IMO. If we didn't intervene and select (incorrectly, much of the time) our breeding animals for the (sometimes bizarre) reasons we do, I feel confident that nature would take its course and rid the breed of these so-called "nerve and health issues."

I think if you really want to get to the crux of it, you'll only breed healthy, naturally-reared animals who display superior traits in ALL aspects, physically and mentally. No more making excuses for weakness, however it displays itself. No helping sick or weak puppies to survive, no breeding animals with skin conditions or allergies, etc.  I don't believe it is so cut and dried in terms of genetics/"nerves." I think it's much more multi-faceted in nature and can be attributed (directly or indirectly) to human influence on nature, which IMO, is often times more detrimental than beneficial.

Then all you educated in science know that enviorment= could be many many things CAN and DOES and is proven to have a direct impact on the ability to change and alter dna matter. So very many things can alter that the scientific world is going to be in for some big surprises and changes,,, I am for one very excited that this new evidence is going to be available and perhaps a door opener to old thinking.

If you merely think genetics as in who is the mother and father then think think again. Firstly the mother has a much greater influence strictly from a physical standpoint.. babies in uetero and the chemical reactions and interface that goes on. You can then expand your minds and know that obvious influences can be the mothers emotions, her actions and behaviors, the enviorment provided to puppies ..food, care, stimulous, interaction, positive and negative .I could go on and on ..it is exciting and stimulatiing to think about.

So many things can have influence on the immune system!

The immune system is not intact when the puppies come out.. it DEVELOPES.

Very intersting topic. :)

Debi
www.sherman-ranch.us
www.ironfistcreations.us

 

Hi All
Was very interested to read that both Carole and Abby have had similar experiences with Sardines and Pilchards!! Who would have guessed it, I thought it must be something peculiar to my pups!! 

AFTER weaning (which I start at 2wks old, or as soon as they open their eyes), I gradually introduce a number of different food stuffs, pilchard / sardines / scrabbled egg / tinned meat (normally pedigree puppy) / chopped cooked chicken, raw minced beef even tinned tuna in oil.

Reason for this is to prepare the pup to a variety of foodstuffs, so that the new owner then has a choice of food they want to feed their pup. The above list are given only as a 'smelly' sprinkling on top of their complete food, of which I also feed two brands (again to offer the new owner choice). However rolling a sachet of panacur granules into a raw mince ball, I find goes down a treat and a perfect way to worm each pup, boy how they happily gulp down their own individual meatball !!

The thing I found interesting though is that Sardines / Pilchards are the ONLY food stuffs of all my added supplements that the pups go off first and continue not to like for months or even years to come. Amazing that two other people have found the same, so wonder if there is something more to this than meets the eye?  They continue to like Tuna and love Salmon!!

First innoc at 6wks (so each pup at least covered by one innoc before going to their new home), then ready for 2nd innoc at 10wks allowing the pup/s to be out 5 days later, early socialisation the sooner the better. Give first annual booster then (other than the first two Shepherds I owned), I never boost again.

Only ever taken one dog for Kennel Cough immunisation, it was years ago when my parents in law looked after our dogs for us but he was a 11mth old boisterous boy and so we thought it best that we put him into kennels. He came out in a terrible state with Kennel Cough. We have never immunised any dog for this since and touch wood we have never had another case of kennel cough with any of our dogs.

I am a true believer in the detrimental effects of excessive immunisation, I believe it either destroys the immune system or renders it over sensitive,  even to the most essential items, such as food for example so the body starts to treat certain foodstuffs as alien but in its attempt to attack the food, the dogs own defense system actually starts to destroy its own body, such as stomach and intestinal linings etc.

Sorry to have rambled on here, jumping from one topic to another, hope you could all follow.
Regards and Merry Christmas to you all.
Sue b

MissBeeb

Indeed I do, and I treasure him!  My biggest fear would be if he were to relocate beyond my reach!   He's been my vet for over 20 years, so we know each other pretty well by now. He is always keen to discuss the latest thinking/developments from conferences/symposiums he's been on etc. I adore him!     

I used to worry a little bit about the fish bones, but they are so fine in sardines it's not really an issue, but as Sue, Carole and I have found, they seem to go off them really quickly anyway, and much prefer tinned.          

I hope everyone has a great Christmas, and I bet there are some fantastic dog presents being wrapped as we speak !                                                    

There's bones in fresh fish dear Susan dear Susan
there's bones in  fresh fish dear Susan there's bones
Then fillet it dear Barbara dear Barbara dear Barbara
then fillet it dear Barbara dear Barbara fillet it!!      lol        
 

Only kidding, I know Jimmy never wants for anything.
Have a good Christmas and enjoy your turkey.

Sue x