HD in Genetics - Page 4

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darylehret

by darylehret on 19 November 2010 - 17:11

You're absolutely right, Gustav, and that's why the title bears the word "genetic" in it, without need at all to discuss the environmental aspects of HD, which they can do little about anyway in regards to helping them decide a specific litter to choose from.

Environment has been known to have affects on heredity but not on the dna composition itself (hereditarily, but not genetically).  Certain studies found that toxins were able to bind to the dna and become replicated as well in the transcription process.  These toxins can actually interfere with the regulatory process of turning on or activating certain genes that help strengthen the immune system.  There's no known correlation between HD and this process that I'm aware of.

by nanu on 19 November 2010 - 19:11

first, before the minor grocery list, we must assume all german shepherds carry the genetics for HD unless we finally can identify those believed to be multiple genes and start measure there.

I personally do not OFA anymore and do not recommend to do as I do.  I keep progressive xray files on all dogs and can select who produces what in their offspring.  I have collected this data since 1985 and am very discriminating at this process.   My first female had perfect hips, 5 generations of 0/0 scores and produced the worst case of HD I have ever seen, two breedings, two different stud dogs, and so my quest to learn.  My current HD rate is well below 5%.  I include it up to 5% simply to rule IN those who do not xray and I take into account that those dogs may be suspect.   

1.  parent knowledge is very paramount  The German SV system that attaches a ZW score is a wonderful system that I would like to see adopted everywhere.  It works well.
2.  progeny record and sibling record
3.  hips xrayed at 6 months to 1 year of age I believe is a more useful tool than at 2 years of age.  yes, the European system does seem to outrank ours.
4.  what was produced through crosses.  find common links.
5.  incorporate environmental factors if you can - puppies housed on concrete, too much time in crates, etc.  you get the idea.  Slippery floors for pups is not a good thing. 
6.  nutrition, nutrition, nutrition.  deviation of the optimal Ca/Phosphorus balance for puppies up to 1 year of age can and does produce HD as shown by Cornell U in the 50's.   Deviation from trace minerals can do the same. Puppies that are too heavy just as bad as those that are too thin.  regular good old exercise for growing pups, let them run and develop.  So we have to rule in or out some dogs here.

For those that feed raw - you're going to love me here - there is an increasing number of data that show these diets are not well formulated for bone growth. 

Conformation - YES it does matter very much in development of HD
Looking at the xray - I'll keep this information to my data and research.   There are some less desirable bone conformations that pass more frequently than others. 

And so to the person looking for particular bloodines?  Good start but you have each parent and all the baggage they bring with them unless you find siblings/progeny to give you data. 

Someone mentioned Mink as a good hip producer.  He actually was bred so much his production rate was not so good.  It all depends on 'his other half"  I personally loved Mink as a working dog producer and would bring his lines into breeding for aggression.

I'll continue again.  gotta go back to the salt mines.   

Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com
 


by nanu on 19 November 2010 - 19:11

 The post on environmental factors we do consider because some people see a dog withHD and automatically assume pure genetics causes all HD.  Prager and Gustov get this and thank you for discussing this.  There are many in this business that don't.  I see an occasional good dog go poorly because the diet and some hard environmental conditions cause breakdown.   Educating dog owners to the good common sense of raising a puppy is one of the most important things we can do for everyone.

decent puppy food please - to one year of age.    Does not have to be expensive, just reliable. Yes, I have corn in my dog's food (gasp!)    No supplements - just dog food.

Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com
 


Prager

by Prager on 19 November 2010 - 21:11

I am selling  book on hips. This is not sales pitch on forum. My profit  after shipping and so on is close to $0. I am selling this book only as a promotion of knowledge on Hip Dysplasia.  
http://www.alpinek9.com/CanineDysplasiaFredLanting.html
 This is a comprehensive book on hips, elbows and other orthepedic disorders by Fred Lanting..
If you are at all interested in breding of dogs and need the knowledge of orthopedic problems then this book is a must.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

darylehret

by darylehret on 19 November 2010 - 22:11

3. hips xrayed at 6 months to 1 year of age I believe is a more useful tool than at 2 years of age. yes, the European system does seem to outrank ours.

Nancy, I have to ask why you think that's better.

Rik

by Rik on 19 November 2010 - 22:11

study of effects nutrition can have on HD

www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx

clc29

by clc29 on 20 November 2010 - 01:11

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your replies BUT,

I can see that the replies to my original post have gotten a little off  topic, so I posted a question on nutrition. I am hoping that  we can continue the subject of nutrition and how it relates to dysplasia and get back to my original question.

Who is Mink? I searched for him but was only able to locate a story on Mink farmers.

Suggestions on Sires and Dams??

Darylehret,
You stated that I need to do an in depth search. How do I do that? I pulled up the OFFA web site and tried to search a couple of dogs but found nothing. Is there another resource? 

Gustav and Pragar
You sound like a people who have been in this breed a long time. Who do you like as a good hip producers? I believe that the dam is every bit as important as the sire so please any suggestions?

Pragar,
Sounds like a great book to have in my library.

Rik
Thanks for the link. Very cool read.

Thanks again everyone. I look forward to your replies.





darylehret

by darylehret on 20 November 2010 - 01:11

OFA might be useful to see about anything that's produced in the U.S., but probably not much help really.  Most people here either import from European lines, or buy from breeders who have imported from European lines.  So you might find what these European dogs have produced in a U.S. bred litter, but only if the parents have progeny already two years old.  So, basically worthless, unless you're considering a breeder that has bred from generations of U.S. born OFA'd producers.

That leaves the question, what lines might interest you?  If you select from German bred ancestors, there is the SV's a-stamp program.  There are also Czech and Slovak lines, either signified by numbers (0/0, 1/1) or by letters (A, B, C) under the international FCI system.

This chart can help you draw relative comparisons, but as the methods differ, keep in mind they are not "equal".


darylehret

by darylehret on 20 November 2010 - 01:11

The FCI system is notated by A, B, C, D, E for german shepherds, other breeds might be A1, A2, B1, B2 and so on.

by Gustav on 20 November 2010 - 03:11

Good hip producer???  Aly  Vordinsteinwald.....great producer of hips, working dogs, and structure!!!





 


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