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by Mystere on 01 October 2009 - 18:10
Not only have any of them ever put a Bh on anything, has a single one of them put on, or been involved in putting on even a CLUB TRIAL in the last 25 years???? Do they even know that there are judges sheets for trials? Got a clue what a trial secretary does in even a club trial, much less the WUSV Championship? At least Landau has seen some trials--have the others even seen a club trial?
Remember, the WDS is Carmen's baby. Yes, $$$$$ are behind it--that's how he sold the idea: national security concerns=need for dogs=money for AKC breeders. Also, note how many of them are running for GSDCA offices and claimed to support AKC simply recognizing the titles from USA/WDA, etc, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel. That's until last weekend--see Danny's blog regarding "Betrayal."
Remember, the WDS is Carmen's baby. Yes, $$$$$ are behind it--that's how he sold the idea: national security concerns=need for dogs=money for AKC breeders. Also, note how many of them are running for GSDCA offices and claimed to support AKC simply recognizing the titles from USA/WDA, etc, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel. That's until last weekend--see Danny's blog regarding "Betrayal."
by SitasMom on 01 October 2009 - 18:10
A while back this discussion came up at our club, maybe a year or 18 months........
It was mentioned that the WDA as more or less a "trial" and if the GSDCA liked what they saw, they would eventually incorporate the WDA directly into their GSDCA organization, but they were very skeptical at first that is why the WDA as formed.
GSDCA was afraid that the WDA would attract too many "fringe" type members, and they were also concerned with training techniques and the who fact the to the vast majority of people in the USA it was just not PC.
Looks to me as though the WDA has "passed" all the hurdles and is now being accepted......I don't know if this is good or bad, but it is what it is......Hope this organizational change will be smooth for everyone's sake.
The WDA is, after all, GSDCA
It was mentioned that the WDA as more or less a "trial" and if the GSDCA liked what they saw, they would eventually incorporate the WDA directly into their GSDCA organization, but they were very skeptical at first that is why the WDA as formed.
GSDCA was afraid that the WDA would attract too many "fringe" type members, and they were also concerned with training techniques and the who fact the to the vast majority of people in the USA it was just not PC.
Looks to me as though the WDA has "passed" all the hurdles and is now being accepted......I don't know if this is good or bad, but it is what it is......Hope this organizational change will be smooth for everyone's sake.
The WDA is, after all, GSDCA
by TessJ10 on 01 October 2009 - 19:10
Why doesn't the GSDCA-WDA support WDS?
And is this statement correct? AKC does not recognize SchH titles at this time, however, I can enter my dog in a WDS trial and earn the AKC title of WDS 1, 2, or 3, which would then be used listed after the dog's name, e.g. CH. Blowfish, CDX, WDS-1.
Has anyone here entered a WDS trial? How does it differ, or doesn't it, from a USA SchH trial?
Thanks for the help.
And is this statement correct? AKC does not recognize SchH titles at this time, however, I can enter my dog in a WDS trial and earn the AKC title of WDS 1, 2, or 3, which would then be used listed after the dog's name, e.g. CH. Blowfish, CDX, WDS-1.
Has anyone here entered a WDS trial? How does it differ, or doesn't it, from a USA SchH trial?
Thanks for the help.
by TessJ10 on 01 October 2009 - 20:10
One more question:
If GSDCA does NOT support Schutzhund, then how were they granted the honor to host the 2013 WUSV? Who awarded this to an anti-Schutzhund group? And what was their reasoning?
If GSDCA does NOT support Schutzhund, then how were they granted the honor to host the 2013 WUSV? Who awarded this to an anti-Schutzhund group? And what was their reasoning?
by sueincc on 01 October 2009 - 20:10
SitasMom Where do you get this stuff, it doesn't even make any sense! First off the WDA has been in existence since 1982, that's more than 25 YEARS. Secondly, there are no difference in training methods from one organization to the other, the split had NOTHING to do with that or any concern over some supposed "fringe element". You are mixing your politics, this is dogs not political party 101.
by SitasMom on 01 October 2009 - 23:10
fringe element - super rednecks and skin heads......the "anti-akc conformation" sort.....
I just relayed what was told to us........I asked why and that is what was said........sorry!
I just relayed what was told to us........I asked why and that is what was said........sorry!
by Mystere on 01 October 2009 - 23:10
Sue,
STOP wasting your time.
Tess,
NO, the GSDCA has historically not supported schutzhund and many/most of its members are still unalterably opposed to it. The politics involved with the WUSV and various of its ultimatums made it "advisable" for the GSDCA &AKC to pay lip-service to the concept of appearing to support maintenance of the gsd as a working breed, hence the (very, very limited) WDS support. Then, the position in July became to not try to re-invent the wheel and recognize the schutzhund titles awarded by already-established organizations, such as USA. Suddenly, however, Battglia worked some kind of "spell" and got the same people (running for election) who had taken that July position to change to support WDS, instead. Mind you, this switch came just in time for the GSDCA elections by all those wonderful people to whom "bitework" is akin to bestiality and other unnatural acts that are illegal in most Southern states. Coincidence?
GSDCA is a member of the WUSV, because it has used WDA as its "beard" so to speak for decades. Ergo, it was able to bid on hosting the event, just as Argentina has for 2014 and Korea in 2015. btw--It will be in Spain (Seville?) next year and Ukraine 2011.
USA has hosted the WUSV Championship twice (we will conveniently "forget" the first time in Boston--ugh). Candidly, USA needed that first "fugly" experience to gain the experience to pull off such a great event last year in Kentucky. It is definitely not an event to jump into inexperienced.
STOP wasting your time.
Tess,
NO, the GSDCA has historically not supported schutzhund and many/most of its members are still unalterably opposed to it. The politics involved with the WUSV and various of its ultimatums made it "advisable" for the GSDCA &AKC to pay lip-service to the concept of appearing to support maintenance of the gsd as a working breed, hence the (very, very limited) WDS support. Then, the position in July became to not try to re-invent the wheel and recognize the schutzhund titles awarded by already-established organizations, such as USA. Suddenly, however, Battglia worked some kind of "spell" and got the same people (running for election) who had taken that July position to change to support WDS, instead. Mind you, this switch came just in time for the GSDCA elections by all those wonderful people to whom "bitework" is akin to bestiality and other unnatural acts that are illegal in most Southern states. Coincidence?
GSDCA is a member of the WUSV, because it has used WDA as its "beard" so to speak for decades. Ergo, it was able to bid on hosting the event, just as Argentina has for 2014 and Korea in 2015. btw--It will be in Spain (Seville?) next year and Ukraine 2011.
USA has hosted the WUSV Championship twice (we will conveniently "forget" the first time in Boston--ugh). Candidly, USA needed that first "fugly" experience to gain the experience to pull off such a great event last year in Kentucky. It is definitely not an event to jump into inexperienced.
by SitasMom on 02 October 2009 - 02:10
"by all those wonderful people to whom "bitework" is akin to bestiality and other unnatural acts that are illegal in most Southern states".
good one!
good one!
by Beaugsd on 02 October 2009 - 04:10
I was shocked to hear the GSDCA is going to host the WUSV. That is like having Jerry Lewis do brain surgery! Once again the GSDCA shows their ignorance by taking this away from an organization that could actually do a good job. I can't wait to see them make fools of themselves in front of the entire working dog world. I know David Landau will do a good job, but look at the committee! Yikes!
I am so sick of dog people who think they know it all and only want their names on something instead of doing it for the betterment of the breed. The people showing in the WUSV are people who have spent countless hours training their dogs. The only thing the GSDCA knows is to hand over their dog to a handler and pay them.
As the people in the US are getting tired of our government, so should the people in these organizations. Stand up for what is right and quit whining about the little stuff. I am sure Mr. Spreitler has worked very hard on this and because of the whim of the GSDCA board it has been snatched away because they want to look good. We have the same 'crap' in our club except on a much smaller level.
Shame on the GSDCA board for thinking they could do a better job than the WDA!
Pat
I am so sick of dog people who think they know it all and only want their names on something instead of doing it for the betterment of the breed. The people showing in the WUSV are people who have spent countless hours training their dogs. The only thing the GSDCA knows is to hand over their dog to a handler and pay them.
As the people in the US are getting tired of our government, so should the people in these organizations. Stand up for what is right and quit whining about the little stuff. I am sure Mr. Spreitler has worked very hard on this and because of the whim of the GSDCA board it has been snatched away because they want to look good. We have the same 'crap' in our club except on a much smaller level.
Shame on the GSDCA board for thinking they could do a better job than the WDA!
Pat
by Sontausen on 02 October 2009 - 05:10
Actually they do recognize schutzhund titles and have for a while now. They even offer the WDS title which is identical to IPO/Schutzhund, and in order to do a WD3, you must have a WD2 OR a SchH/IPO2. for example. The only beef I have with it is they changed the name of the Bh to "TT" which is stupid because there is already a "TT" for Temperament Tested . Should have kept the Bh or called it the BW ( Beginning Work) or some such. Other than that, the rules are the same
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