Dog aggression - Page 4

I think I will pass on the seminar, but thank you for the offer.  I do attend seminars but only from those those I deem as highly skilled and very  accomplished.  Jeff can come out and bring his Ring dogs to train with us, my invitation is still open.  I have formed my opinion about Jeff from Jeff, from reading some of the things he has written regarding training, handling and correcting dogs.  Oh, and also from watching a few of his training videos and the Mondio National video.  I am far from having a soft temperament and know how to effectively, fairly and humanely correct a dog.  I also understand praise and positive reinforcement.  Everything with my dogs is done in black and white, there are no grey areas and I am very consistent.  I can honestly say that I do not kick, hit or shake the snot out of my dogs.  I currently have and have had some fairly hard dogs over the years and have never seen the need to correct in that fashion.  Speaking of seminars I went to a Roland Siebel seminar about 15 years ago and learned something that has always stuck with me.  Siebel is anything but a soft handler and works hard dogs.  He admonished an individual for kicking his dog and then discussed compulsion  saying "My hand is only for praising, never for hitting." 

JMO FWW,

Jim

You people are so 2010! You need to re-direct, and the best way is to get naked and do the riverdance. Dogs and handlers will all be baffled. I lost a few club members, but my dog was cured of DA.

    
   (  a properly timed boot in the ass or shake of the scruff )

I am so not impressed.
I can be heavy handed when the occasion calls for it but these tactics can only instill fear in an animal and that can get someone bit quicker than anything, and talk about destroying drive.
Where do you people come from anyway.


Moons.


  ))))))))0          )

@ Mr. Duncan: How does one humanely correct a dog? Are you not making this judgement from a human perspective rather than the canine eye view? I say this because of your use of phrases ("shaken baby" a form of child abuse, "cruel and unusual punishment" which pertains to our criminal justice system) in an anthropomorphic way. Aren't you splitting hairs when you object to the tools and methods someone else uses when you in fact are using different tools and methods to the same end?

@ Mr. Moonie: I agree that these tactics will instill fear. I want the dog to be afraid that the hand of his Goddess (me) will smite him the next time he looks at one of my chickens, and so to choose not to look at my chickens. I see no correlation to learning not to chase the chickens (or to not make stink eye at another dog) with a diminishment of drive for work. Please elaborate from personal experience and give examples of this drive destroying you are referring to.
Btw, I originally come from Brooklyn, NY. Where do you come from Mr. Moonie?

Stephanie,
Fear is no substitute for respect.

A dog never forgets fear, or what created that fear, ever.
Fear can be transferred by the dog to other things and yes get in the way of natural drives.
This can be dangerous in certain situations.
This has nothing to do with chickens, it has to do with correcting behavior, and socializing properly.

I've raised too many species of animals to list, but chickens are on that list along with dogs.
It would be a form of socializing and obedience that would teach a dog not to chase chickens or make (stink eye) at another dog.
The younger the better.
If corrections are necessary they must be made correctly, at the correct time, and in the correct place (situation) to be effective.

I have personally seen dogs ruined by beatings, that's what I call kicking a dog in the ass, and yes I have seen dogs ruined from shock devices used improperly.
Examples?
Ask any real trainer, don't take my word for it, it's not rocket science.

As for origins, I am currently in Indiana.

btw,
Moonies as they were called refered to members of the Unification Church which I have never been associated with.

I am however Two Moons, which is spiritual yet not religious in meaning.

Moons.



   

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I currently have and have had some fairly hard dogs over the years and have never seen the need to correct in that fashion.

I guess then we can pretty much figure out from that statement that you and I have a different opinion of a hard dog. Although, with the lack of control that most police dogs have, you could always just choke the dog off. After all, a hard dog is going to out and release all pretty like after a good fight. Or maybe your dogs just have not had to do that. I have seen 7 dogs in the past year or year and a half come back from police depts completely screwed up, wanting to cash in on the vendors "guarentee". There was one in particular, he was brought out with 4 catch poles, they were so afraid of what they had done to that dog. The dog was not insane, and he is a good dog, but too much for the police. He also was a hard dog, so all they did was teach him to never out until he passed out. The list of stupidity goes on and on and on. So, if you have a hard dog, and have never ever had to physically correct him, then maybe your definition is a bit weak.

I am not sure you would like one of my seminars. We have fun and train dogs. Imagine that, fun AND training. Of course you will read this as we build shrines and sacrifice dogs on large rocks burning them over huge fires. 

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A dog never forgets fear, or what created that fear, ever. Fear can be transferred by the dog to other things and yes get in the way of natural drives. This can be dangerous in certain situations.

I have done over 3000 rescues. Dogs never forget fear ?? Bullshit. I have taken dogs that have went through terrible terrible things, and unless they were nervy to begin with, most forget quite easily. 

I have had some pretty extreme dogs in my lifetime. They had no problem hurting someone very badly. Fear/respect, same difference. They think about biting someone, and I am going to knock the crap out of them. Yes, they will fight back, but I will win. Pet people do not get this, but fluffy is never going to do what those dogs would do. 

We do not have dog fights here. I have one dog that has dominance issues that were not addressed when he was young, but the rest do not have dog aggression. I would send a dog back the same day I saw that crappy insecure BS behavior. I have no tolerance for it, and I have seen enough of it to see the little thrill some of the owners get from it. 

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I have personally seen dogs ruined by beatings, that's what I call kicking a dog in the ass,

Let me type this slowly, as I know you do not read very fast.  The dog that you are describing wasn't worth a shit to begin with.

Let me also say this, beating a dog because you have had a bad day is abuse. Booting a dog in the ass that is very intent on biting a child, a person, a chicken, another dog is not. I will not tolerate it. If the boot in the ass doesn't work, then I will put them down. I will not have it. Maybe that is the problem with so many people with behavior problems. They do not make clear boundries of what is acceptable and not acceptable, and do not have the sand to enforce these boundries. 

Jim forgot to mention the reaction to the horrible booting that my chicken grabbing pup gave after the "horrific confusion filled" boot in the ass she got. She stopped trying to kill the chicken, and waited for me as I caught the chicken and put it away, then when I got closer to her, she ran over and jumped on me and started to goof around. I guess that part of the story did not coincide with the point he was trying to make, so he left that out. After all, he is always black and white, and never gray. Maybe he didn't think I would call him on his gray BS.

Jeff,
I read just fine, dunno what your problem is here.
You seem to be confusing me with Jim.


Going over your statements, I'm not going to cut and paste them all, I think your full of shit.
Not saying a dog can't be handled powerfully, I have had to get very aggressive with one or two, but your wrong about fear/respect.
And you are wrong about forgetting.

3000 rescues?
Jesus your one of those.
How many have you put down?

Around here if a dog bites for the wrong reason it's gone, not kicked in the ass but put down, zero tolerance.

Leave me out of your person problems with other members, I remember you but that's about it.

Nothing is just black or white.

Moons.

Quote: 

Not saying a dog can't be handled powerfully, I have had to get very aggressive with one or two, but your wrong about fear/respect.

HOW am I wrong. It is one thing to say, I am full of shit, but HOW am I full of shit ?

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And you are wrong about forgetting.

HOW am I wrong ? Or, you have no idea if I am wrong or right, but you have a different opinion, and one that you cannot actually back up with experience.

Quote: 

You seem to be confusing me with Jim.

No, just giving you shit. 

Quote: 

Nothing is just black or white.

That is Jimmy's incredible ability in dog training, black, white, no gray. I was just making fun of such an absurd statement.

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Speaking of seminars I went to a Roland Siebel seminar about 15 years ago and learned something that has always stuck with me.  Siebel is anything but a soft handler and works hard dogs.  He admonished an individual for kicking his dog and then discussed compulsion  saying "My hand is only for praising, never for hitting."

AND, because he has an accent, it was as if the word of God himself come from the heavens above. The angels sang, and all was right with the world. Jimmy left that day smiling, because he had seen the light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1KZKZs-2YM

THE BAND !

Here is some beginning DOH work. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1KZKZs-2YM

As you can see, I was beating the dog left right and sideways, kicking the dog in the head. LOL Of course that is what Jimmy would want you to believe. Sad that his only response is to try and make it look like that is how I train.