This is a placeholder text
Group text
by windwalker18 on 09 March 2011 - 02:03
The Vets that I have dealt with (including the ones I worked with for 25 years) don't as a rule of thumb recommend that people use raw diet, nor that they try putting together a mix of foods to feed instead of kibble. The reason isn't rebates from food companies (we never got any from Hills, nor any other company) it was because any diet INCLUDING RAW diets need to be properly balanced. When most clients hear FEED RAW DIET TO YOUR DOG... they think it means go buy your dog rump roast for dinner each day. Feed them raw Hamburger patties... most clients don't have the knowledge of nutrition, nor canine digestion to provide a good RAW nor homemade diet for their dogs. When dogs are allergic to a particular grain or meat source it's more reliable to tell the client to feed a particular food, whether it's from Hills, Purina, Iams or whatever... that is consistently without the offending protein source.
My sister has an Akita with horrible allergies to many things, and has been fed a RAW diet for many years, she spends quite a bit of time and $ on it each week, and has studied nutrition in order to be sure what she feeds is correct for the dog's nutritional needs. But the average client wouldn't spend that time for education.
I've been feeding the same commercial food (Blue Seal Natural 26) for a couple of decades and have had no problems with coats, acceptance, growth etc... and most of my dogs are living to be 12-15 years old with little or no health issues. As the ole saying goes.. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
My sister has an Akita with horrible allergies to many things, and has been fed a RAW diet for many years, she spends quite a bit of time and $ on it each week, and has studied nutrition in order to be sure what she feeds is correct for the dog's nutritional needs. But the average client wouldn't spend that time for education.
I've been feeding the same commercial food (Blue Seal Natural 26) for a couple of decades and have had no problems with coats, acceptance, growth etc... and most of my dogs are living to be 12-15 years old with little or no health issues. As the ole saying goes.. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
by Sunsilver on 09 March 2011 - 16:03
WW, EXACTLY the same point I was trying to make earlier in this thread!
Then there is the matter of feeding a balanced raw diet. Most people can't even train their dogs to come when called, and you expect them to make up a nutritionally balanced died for their dogs?? I'd like to show you something, if I could. It's the skeleton of a young ocelot some idiot imported from S. America. He fed it nothing but raw hamburger, and that, combined with lack of sunshine, caused such a severe case of rickets that the cat had to be euthanized. I can see the same thing happening to a dog, as most people think 'meat' is only the muscle meat that we eat, with maybe the odd meal of liver thrown in!
Then there is the matter of feeding a balanced raw diet. Most people can't even train their dogs to come when called, and you expect them to make up a nutritionally balanced died for their dogs?? I'd like to show you something, if I could. It's the skeleton of a young ocelot some idiot imported from S. America. He fed it nothing but raw hamburger, and that, combined with lack of sunshine, caused such a severe case of rickets that the cat had to be euthanized. I can see the same thing happening to a dog, as most people think 'meat' is only the muscle meat that we eat, with maybe the odd meal of liver thrown in!
by Niesia on 09 March 2011 - 18:03
I believe that “balanced diet” doesn’t really exist. Are we as people able to provide to ourselves perfectly balanced diet according to the book every day? The balanced diet is achieved over time. One day we eat potatoes the other we eat rice.
Some people think that feeding raw is prohibitively expensive. I found it to be exact opposite. I don’t buy for my dog meat from the local supermarket. I looked around and found butchers who have off-cuts, leftovers, head meat from cows (that humans don’t wont), bones, guts, etc. They cannot sell it for human consumption, but for a dog it is a different story. As it is usually something they throw out at the end of the day – you can get it pretty cheap. The issue is – it spoils quickly so you need a freezer.
I am not a RAW diet crazy as my dog gets a lot of table scraps with various nutrients at various times. It also keeps the food interesting for her. I am not trying to give her “perfectly balanced” diet every single day. When she is pregnant, she chooses different ingredients than regularly. I can really say that she chooses her own diet – some day she will devour an apple, the other she will spit out the smallest bits and pieces.
The concept of RAW for me is to give them especially meat ingredient in a raw form. If you cook it, it will lose majority of its nutrients (same as carrots and apples). That’s why they always have to add a ‘vitamin pill’ to the kibble. In majority of kibble brands most protein content comes from the plant proteins anyway and not from meat.
Speaking of a price tag: I spend no more than $400 (about a $1/day) a year to feed my 80 lb dog (and no vet bills for the last 5 years except shots). How much does it cost you to feed your dog with a high quality kibble? How much is a "vet prescription diet" for you dog that you buy from the vet? - that should really answer the question "Why are so many vets against RAW".
The biggest difference regarding RAW/home cooked and kibble I noticed is in my puppy’s behavior. I wean them on raw, but I also introduce them to kibble (in case future owner decides to go this route). When I feed them RAW/home cooked they calm down after the meal and are happy, more relaxed. When I feed them kibble, they swallow everything and want more and more, they are very antsy as if they didn’t get anything yet. I believe well fed puppy is a good puppy. For food they love they'll do anything - great training tool. The difference in behavior is so great that I feed them kibble only when I am sending them outside right after. I don't have to go to the vet to have him prescribe me puppy calming pills.
Some people think that feeding raw is prohibitively expensive. I found it to be exact opposite. I don’t buy for my dog meat from the local supermarket. I looked around and found butchers who have off-cuts, leftovers, head meat from cows (that humans don’t wont), bones, guts, etc. They cannot sell it for human consumption, but for a dog it is a different story. As it is usually something they throw out at the end of the day – you can get it pretty cheap. The issue is – it spoils quickly so you need a freezer.
I am not a RAW diet crazy as my dog gets a lot of table scraps with various nutrients at various times. It also keeps the food interesting for her. I am not trying to give her “perfectly balanced” diet every single day. When she is pregnant, she chooses different ingredients than regularly. I can really say that she chooses her own diet – some day she will devour an apple, the other she will spit out the smallest bits and pieces.
The concept of RAW for me is to give them especially meat ingredient in a raw form. If you cook it, it will lose majority of its nutrients (same as carrots and apples). That’s why they always have to add a ‘vitamin pill’ to the kibble. In majority of kibble brands most protein content comes from the plant proteins anyway and not from meat.
Speaking of a price tag: I spend no more than $400 (about a $1/day) a year to feed my 80 lb dog (and no vet bills for the last 5 years except shots). How much does it cost you to feed your dog with a high quality kibble? How much is a "vet prescription diet" for you dog that you buy from the vet? - that should really answer the question "Why are so many vets against RAW".
The biggest difference regarding RAW/home cooked and kibble I noticed is in my puppy’s behavior. I wean them on raw, but I also introduce them to kibble (in case future owner decides to go this route). When I feed them RAW/home cooked they calm down after the meal and are happy, more relaxed. When I feed them kibble, they swallow everything and want more and more, they are very antsy as if they didn’t get anything yet. I believe well fed puppy is a good puppy. For food they love they'll do anything - great training tool. The difference in behavior is so great that I feed them kibble only when I am sending them outside right after. I don't have to go to the vet to have him prescribe me puppy calming pills.
by mikekimbo on 11 March 2011 - 21:03
i love row
by HighDesertGSD on 11 March 2011 - 23:03
First, vets want to sell dog food.
Second, vets see too many cases of acute bacterial infection or food poisoning with feeding raw.
Possibly both are valid and cumulative reasons.
Second, vets see too many cases of acute bacterial infection or food poisoning with feeding raw.
Possibly both are valid and cumulative reasons.
by Prager on 11 March 2011 - 23:03
Vet will not recommend anything which can leave him legally responsible. That is where the money comes in. If you go and feed your dog raw pork after vet tells you that raw is OK or foolishly recommends it, and your dog gets tapeworm then some people may scream bloody murder and or sue. I have 30+ dogs and if I would feed raw and get tapeworm then it will cost me little fortune to take care of it. For same legal and practical reason no boarding kennel will recommend raw. I cook meat slightly to grey color to kill parasites which may be there.
That is what I do.
Next point is about balanced diet.
What the hell is that. Coyote or wolf, the nearest relative of domesticated dog, eats bugs, lizards, berries, frogs, rotting road kill sometimes they eat a rabbit and often nothing. Urban coyotes are healthily living on rabbits and garbage. Which balanced comercial dog food simulates that??!
So called commercial, granulated balanced diet is a diet is a "dead" died, which causes dogs to grow too fast and have subsequent bone and joint problem because the amount of digestible protein makes dogs on this diet grow too fast but the dog does not digest minerals fast enough in order to support such growth. That is caused usually by total lack of live enzymes and amino acids and bio available vitamins and minerals and so on which are common in wolfs diet or diet of a dog on left overs..... Leftovers??! You say.
Dogs since they got domesticated for tens and maybe of hundreds of thousands of years and thousands of generations are on cooked leftover diet for most of their lives.
Then Purina says that we are wrong. And then raw diet people say that we are wrong. Yes raw is better than nutritionally "balanced" crap in chrome plated shiny bags, but I recommend cooked meat with pasta sea salt and some raw vegetables.
Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
That is what I do.
Next point is about balanced diet.
What the hell is that. Coyote or wolf, the nearest relative of domesticated dog, eats bugs, lizards, berries, frogs, rotting road kill sometimes they eat a rabbit and often nothing. Urban coyotes are healthily living on rabbits and garbage. Which balanced comercial dog food simulates that??!
So called commercial, granulated balanced diet is a diet is a "dead" died, which causes dogs to grow too fast and have subsequent bone and joint problem because the amount of digestible protein makes dogs on this diet grow too fast but the dog does not digest minerals fast enough in order to support such growth. That is caused usually by total lack of live enzymes and amino acids and bio available vitamins and minerals and so on which are common in wolfs diet or diet of a dog on left overs..... Leftovers??! You say.
Dogs since they got domesticated for tens and maybe of hundreds of thousands of years and thousands of generations are on cooked leftover diet for most of their lives.
Then Purina says that we are wrong. And then raw diet people say that we are wrong. Yes raw is better than nutritionally "balanced" crap in chrome plated shiny bags, but I recommend cooked meat with pasta sea salt and some raw vegetables.
Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Sunsilver on 11 March 2011 - 23:03
I think dogs are pretty adaptable when it comes to diet. Many people believe that dogs cannot digest corn meal. But in China where dogs are raised for food, the bulk of the diet is corn meal and other grains. The dogs I saw pictures of didn't have nice, shiny coats, but they were surviving and putting on enough weight to satisfy the butcher! 
by Prager on 11 March 2011 - 23:03
Yeah dogs will survive even on a dead commercial ,so called balanced diet too.
Hans
Hans
by Jacko on 12 March 2011 - 05:03
Vets remind me of the board, if you were to talk to a 100 or more, you would have just about that many answers.
They are not nutritionist, so I guess what you think of their opinion depends on if they agree with your or not.
They are not nutritionist, so I guess what you think of their opinion depends on if they agree with your or not.
by djc on 13 March 2011 - 21:03
Veterinarians are NOT TAUGHT about nutrition they only get brain washed by the pet food industry. This from vets themselves. There are plenty of vets who have studied up on their own time and have now switched to recommending raw. So called "balanced" diets are proclaimed that by whom???? The very same industry that promotes processed dog food! Of course grain makes them fat. Look at us when we eat too much bread and starches. What do we feed cattle to fatten them up? Dogs do not need grain and they do not have the capacity to process all of the nutrients in the grain. Hence the LARGE amount of stool when they are on a grain based diet. What's not processed comes out the other end in mass quantities.
It is TOTAL BS to think that canine digestive systems have changed AT ALL!! I remember years ago when I worked for a vet and asked him why my dog vomited undigested food more than 12 hours after he had eaten it. The answer came back as "I don't know". lol Now I DO KNOW why.... God made canine digestive tracts to be able to handle all kinds of bacteria! Ever wonder why a healthy coyote or wolf can eat week old road kill in the middle of summer and not have a problem??
Here's why:
Dogs, Wolves, Coyotes and the like, keep their food in their stomach for 12 + hours. WHY? Because the stomach gives their food an intense acid bath for those 12 + hours, killing most of the bad bacteria. The rest that slips by into the dog's very short intestinal tract, spends so little time there that it does not have time to ferment. This is the natural process of ALL canines.
This is the complete opposite of our human system and it also the reason why those bad bacterias can kill us! Our food spends very little time in the stomach and a LONG time in the intestinal tract. Making a near perfect environment for the bad bacteria to grow and flourish.
In my opinion, like so many other things having to do with our pets, vets and owner's alike humanize their dogs and assume that they are like us. Which they are not!
I am not here to argue. Do what you feel is best for your dogs. But the FACTS needed to be brought out.
Debby
It is TOTAL BS to think that canine digestive systems have changed AT ALL!! I remember years ago when I worked for a vet and asked him why my dog vomited undigested food more than 12 hours after he had eaten it. The answer came back as "I don't know". lol Now I DO KNOW why.... God made canine digestive tracts to be able to handle all kinds of bacteria! Ever wonder why a healthy coyote or wolf can eat week old road kill in the middle of summer and not have a problem??
Here's why:
Dogs, Wolves, Coyotes and the like, keep their food in their stomach for 12 + hours. WHY? Because the stomach gives their food an intense acid bath for those 12 + hours, killing most of the bad bacteria. The rest that slips by into the dog's very short intestinal tract, spends so little time there that it does not have time to ferment. This is the natural process of ALL canines.
This is the complete opposite of our human system and it also the reason why those bad bacterias can kill us! Our food spends very little time in the stomach and a LONG time in the intestinal tract. Making a near perfect environment for the bad bacteria to grow and flourish.
In my opinion, like so many other things having to do with our pets, vets and owner's alike humanize their dogs and assume that they are like us. Which they are not!
I am not here to argue. Do what you feel is best for your dogs. But the FACTS needed to be brought out.
Debby
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top