"Delicate subject" - Page 4

Demaras,
I agree, it’s up to people to try and buy the best dog and in a free country you can do as you please.

BUT here is an example from my backyard:
My neighbors knew my bitch for years, loved her puppies, their looks, temperaments and smarts, but they said that they probably couldn’t afford them – so they didn’t even ask if I would consider selling one of my pups and I didn’t offer… Their imagination was sparked by cute photos of pups from “good pedigrees” with guarantees … They bought two pups online from the same litter (male & female) to keep as pets. They picked them up at the airport and brought them home. It took them a year to show them off to me and they live only 5 min away and use the walk trail passing my house… Both dogs have a lot of white on them, soft/floppy ears, splayed feet, weak backs and worst of all poor temperaments. They are experienced GSD owners, but they cannot handle them. Both dogs were sent to specialized training facility, but with little luck. They finally came to me for a suggestion… and what can I say? “Your dogs are really nice…” I cannot comment on the shock collars and I cannot ask “what were you thinking” … but I want to scream… I don’t want to be an “I know it all” and I didn’t need them to buy puppies from me. I really don’t want to make them feel stupid. I think they know it themselves and it’s not my place to remind them of that. And those dogs came with papers, pedigrees and guarantees from a “reputable breeder” and much more expensive than my pets… I believe, they trusted what they read online and they thought they are getting a “better dog” from online seller than from a neighbor breeder. ..

Tell me this, what is the difference of selling a well bred Litter of Pups to one person, and at the same time someone  else purchasing a Female already pregnant, and that is done a lot in the USA for sure. so i cannot see what any problem is etheir way
Steve1

I have only read the first two pages but later will read all entries. To the OP as Double D stated you are all over the board, changing the question as soon as you get and answer. ORIGINAL QUESTION was we as breeders selling an ENTIRE litter to someone overseas?

Then you state about conditions of a ? German Kennel and seeing things in person. In order to get answers concerning a kennel overseas one doesn't have to be there in person. That is a bonus, "icing on the cake" so to say. Do you honestly think whoever has a dog imported from wherever is getting a bad dog just because of the fact that they didn't make a trip to the overseas kennel?

Now, I'll try and read the rest.................... 

Steve1,

I’m not talking about selling a “well bred Litter of Pups” to one person. I am talking about selling those litters to middlemen who then retails them online to whoever pays the price. If you want to import a whole litter to have a pick of a litter or have people who look for those particular puppies – why not, it’s your choice. As a breeder I personally wouldn’t send my whole litter to a person/company reselling them on regular basis. I think all of us seen websites of US resellers that have continuous shipments of pups from abroad, any color, any line. And I believe that people whom I refuse to sell my pups to, go to those online stores and buy those puppies. Why do you think there is so many “free to good home” (no small kids, no other animals, fenced in yard, etc.) GSD adolescents out there …

Regarding pregnant females – I think (correct me if I’m wrong) that it is mainly German way of selling the females – I would say “added bonus” and “proof” of her fertility. But I don’t see anything wrong in importing healthy pregnant female from great lines that has been bred to the outstanding male. Your chances as a breeder, to have outstanding pups are much better, than just buying a single puppy.

Breeding right is rarely a profitable business, that’s why in the past only rich people played in dog breeding as a hobby…

So if you are breeding for profit only, than probably you are happy that somebody takes whole litters from you and frees you from worrying about finding them homes. Many breeders I know and like don’t really make money in breeding. They all have their day jobs and selling pups helps them to pay for all the care their dogs needs, training, travel and accommodation during shows, stud fees, care of puppies, etc.

But as long as people see it glamorous to have an “import” - as long there will be resellers offering “import pups” to anybody who wants them. However it’s not very glamorous for them to brag about spending $16K for an intact Sch3 “import” male and then have this dog attack my intact female and having his but kicked. It’s not glamorous to have your trained dog not to listen to you and have your dog deemed dangerous by the City and banned from the dog parks (because of other attacks – my girl can take care of herself). I don’t think that majority of online resellers really screen the dogs they sell or the buyers….

Maybe those people made a mistake in the add (language deficiency) - what do you think? English is a second language for me as well, so...

If say you are the importer of such a Litter of Pups then if the Breeder is reputable and has top class Stock then you will have had to pay a fairly high price for the Litter. There would be no chance of such Pups being sold to the kind of homes you speak off because the price would be to high in the first place,
I guess these things go on but it also goes on within the shores of the USA. There is enough talk on this Forum about Puppy Mills in the USA and these being bred in the USA.
As for it being a German way of selling a Pregnant Bitch , Sorry that does not hold water at all' It is the Buyer who mostly asks for the Female to be served before she goes over and the buyer at most picks the Male Dog for that  very purpose. and this comes from friends within these shores and from friends in Germany as well 
And before you ask why i will tell you, It is for the simple reason of getting bloodlines in a Pup of which you possibly would not get in the USA so easy, and the fact the buyer will be getting some of the  the purchase price if not all of the Female back once the Litter is sold in the USA.
Nothing wrong in that at all  I would do the same thing that is the only logical thing to do but that is fact
Steve1
Oh i will add this bit, I have never bred a Litter of Puppies in around 60 years of owning dogs several breeds of dog most thoroughbred breeds. Should i ever breed with the Female in my Avatar the first three Pups will be given away Free, and she is a daughter of a WUSV champion and her mate could well be a WUSV champion, I will not be breeding her for Profit, i will hopefully be doing my little bit to furthering the good of the German Shepherd Breed to a small extent, that is my main goal in keeping these great dogs

 Quote: They finally came to me for a suggestion… and what can I say? “Your dogs are really nice…” I cannot comment on the shock collars and I cannot ask “what were you thinking” … but I want to scream… I don’t want to be an “I know it all” and I didn’t need them to buy puppies from me. I really don’t want to make them feel stupid. I think they know it themselves and it’s not my place to remind them of that. And those dogs came with papers, pedigrees and guarantees from a “reputable breeder” and much more expensive than my pets… I believe, they trusted what they read online and they thought they are getting a “better dog” from online seller than from a neighbor breeder. ..

It couldn't be your attitude now could it ?? : )  

If you only want one pup out of a litter, and you live in Germany or some fancy country, and some guy tells you that you can keep the litter till 10 weeks and I have a buyer for the litter, AND they will pay you some retarded price for them, what would you do ? Gotta remember that many breeders do not look at pups as so many of you on here do.

Look at the contracts that some people have. Why even breed, or sell if you need that much control over the pup ? The only thing that you could do is wait until you have 10 or so people you know that want a pup from you and hope that your dog is not too old to breed at that point. Logistically, you are probably not going to be producing anything that way.

If someone wants to buy a whole litter and has the money, then you either sell, or don't sell. Bottom line is the pups are going to be sold anyway, and who is to say that situation works out better ? I don't wish bad luck on anyone as far as selling to a bad home. ( abusive ) But people can go on the internet and get enough information to fake a breeder out. Before, you could figure out the people that were full of it really really easy. Now................... ??? 

Jeff
Very well put.  If a breeder takes a litter of Pups they are there in the main to be sold for money no other reason unless stated. So what Jeff says is right and again he is right when he says breeders do not look on a litter of Pups the way some people do.  this is my thoughts on it and i do not mean to offend anyone from the USA by saying this
If i ever breed a Litter of Pups from my Female, I would  be very wary of ever sending any to the USA or any other Country which is logically out of my reach so to speak,
The reason why is that many in the USA want cast iron Guarantees that the Pup will turn out as they expect in every way.
 That is very near impossible for anyone to guarantee, If i were to ever do that the Price would match the Guarantee wanted by the Buyer, Possibly in that case i would not sell any Pups in the USA for that very reason but i would not bother to much about that
We must always remember that a 8 to 9 week old Pup is a delicate thing at that age, No breeder will ever know how much the Pup is worked when young or how it is treated plus a breeder would never know on what or how a Puppy is being fed and reared very important is this to me because the rearing and feeding Carry's much to what the pup will be in the future for its development and its temperament, and again how good a trainer the person buying the Pup is Now that would be my concern in sending a Puppy abroad, an old Dog, Yes', a person can meet what is wanted but a Puppy no one can ever be sure.
Steve1

Steve1 a Throroughbred is a breed of Horse.  I believe the word you are looking for is Purebred.