How come those little brown dogs bite so hard? - Page 4

Don, did you watch the video? Of course I agree with what you are saying in principle but I would use this video as a benchmark only, I mean, at least we can say "A German Shepherd has been recorded having a bite force of 238 psi  vs. "Hey man take a look at my bruised arm! Damn it hurt." 

Well, I think now anyone can surmise that maybe their "average" German Shepherd is biting in the same ballpark of 238 psi at a run. Compare that to the wolf standing still with over 400 psi in bite power. OUCH

What we really need is to get a Mal to bite the stick, or maybe just get Max to bite the stick... LOL 

I'm just kidding............!

.....(not fair using Bob!!!!.....no offense but he's not what I would call "average") 

First, keep in mind that Max brought up hardness of bite, not fullness.  They are not the same thing, many dogs with 100% full grips are not hard biters, and there are many dogs out there that bite with a 3/4 grip who bite VERY hard.  Not all, but you can't judge anything about pressure just by looking at fullness.

I think  "mewoodjr" brought up a good point.  I would sure HOPE a 85-90lb GSD would bite harder then a 65-70lb Malinois.  If they don't, that's a sad statement about the GSD.  Comparing similar to equal sized dogs though, I think the Malinois can definitely hold it's own against other breeds in terms of bite pressure.  And I think this is one of the main points in the discussion, you just can't compare a 65-70 lb dog to an 85-90 lb dog and call it a true equal comparison.  If you want to go by size, then you would have to compare the average Malinois male, to the average GSD female, then you might have an equal comparison.

Someone else mentioned pushing vs pulling, implying the Malinois has to be taught to push because of some weakness in it's bite.  That's simply not correct.  The Malinois was designed around suit sports, not Schutzhund.  Pushing is the desired biting style of ALL dogs competing in Belgian Ring, not just Malinois.  French Ring doesn't grade the fullness of the grip, hower most people who do FR who are grip oriented also want a forward/pushing grip style.  "Full and pull" is not desired by anyone I know who is grip oriented and doing the Ring sports, although in French Ring they do have what I call a "bite and endure" style of biting, where the dog gets what he can, and hangs on tight, because he's learned through training he probably won't be given a chance to regrip during the fight.  This creates a very hard biting dog, just not always a full biter.  My current FR competition dog does the "full and pull" because her foundation training was in Schutzhund, not Ring. And I HATE it. But I've learned to just not look LOL We'll keep working on fixing her biting style, but we'll always be working on it, and I'll probably never be happy with it.  15-20 years ago most of the KNPV dogs I saw weren't the fullest of biters, but man they could bite hard.  Now there is more BR influence, and I'm seeing more emphasis put on fullness of bite, and some very nice biting dogs in the KNPV program.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.  IMO one reason the good Malinois do bite as hard as they do, is intent.  The combination of drive, aggression, an obsessiveness that's bred into them, and yes a little bit of nerve, combines to make a dog that puts 110% of itself into it's bite.   I also think it's something that more attention is paid to in the breeding programs.  Which is partly a breed thing, but also partly a sport thing.  When Schutzhund people post about dogs, they talk about how strong the barking is, how good the tracking is, how full/calm the bite is.  And sometimes about the pressue of the bites, the quickness of the strike, etc.  When suit sport people talk about the dogs I hear about how full and hard the grips are, how fast the entries are, how strong the dog is in character, and sometimes how atheletic it is.  And sometimes about the obedience, or guarding, but not often.  Different focal points for different sports results in different types of dogs.

Look at Belgian Ring, yet another sport dominated by Malinois,  one where bite development is very important.  I don't think anyone could doubt the full hard bite of the Malinois bred and trained for Belgian Ring. 

It is my understanding the testing  for Malinois Breed Surveys  are fluid, can change  to address issues that may come up in the breed.   This sounds to me like a very smart thing.  I also know that even with this, many Malinois are not tested, yet the breed currently is not plagued with the issues we see in the GSD.  I believe much of this has to do with popularity and a lot of money, which leads to  corruption and mediocrity. 

It seems like the Malinois has been bred with the attitude  "pretty is as pretty does".  It has not fallen to fashion and the exaggerations of the show ring.  Also I hear a lot of people talking about how function follows form, so all these GSD angles, and everything else important in the  conformation show ring  is vital to protect the health of the breed, if that's the case, why is the Malinois so much healthier and able to work far longer without breaking down?

 Funny because I hear a lot of people talk about the ugly, little, plain  Malinios, but when I see a good working Malinois, man I know I am looking at  a powerhouse of pure beauty.

Before anyone gets their back up, let me say I am a GSD person, and I most likely will always be a GSD person.  We have our reasons for loving this breed.  But I love it so much I am very willing to stand up and raise my hand and say what the hell are we doing?

My Border Collie Cattle dog mix bites like a SOB.  D

This may segway nicely into ...Soft,Hard,and sharp.
For temperament...

Let's say for the sake of argument..in the early 1800's
the dog was not as domesticated..

The wild side of him...had the instincts of
being hard and cunning...also suspicious
of humans.

The domesticated side had a adoration for
his human partner...and did not fear the surroundings
of civilization.

By blending the two together ...you got a dog
with a good mind..soft and supple, but still had
herding instincts that wild dogs used for the kill.
And protection instincts used to protect the pack,
and the young.

Dave, that is considered a Battle Collie.

Blitz and the great Othar...also a Malinois I did not work but heard
alot about was..the great producer Espoir du Boscaille.

These 2 had the hardest bites...

The hardest bites for GSD...was a toss up with
a father and son...
Orry and Querry....Tom I am told had a very hard bite,
but I never worked Tom.


Here is Blitz and Othar..... Bouvier, and Malinois.

Phil,

 I agree the DMC Korung holds Malinois breeders/dogs to a higher standard and is great test. There are breeders of the GSD that expect nothing less of the dogs they produce, to bad it's a small percentage of the overall GSD population. The GSD Korung is a joke and can be passed by any POS dog if repeated enough times in training.

Malndobe,

I am saying light weight, middle weight, or any other
kind of weight...These were the hardest bites I have ever taken.

Memba Jul 27, 2007 ... Anthony Clark 800lb Bench Press 1996 Olympia

Even as a teenager he had tremendous strength...

But the one Guy that stands out in my mind was a 135lb Japanese
man, that could do a 600lb dead lift.....

So weight is not always a factor.....Nervous system has a lot to do
with it.

I have a friend that I learned power lifting from. He took the Masters class
for Northern Calif at 175Lbs. Power lifting.....Very strong.

mm you need to look at the bite raio i saw.maly was way dow the listt