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by Two Moons on 15 September 2010 - 17:09
Temperment and color had much to do with one another in the fur Fox industry and it has been documented.
by Rugers Guru on 15 September 2010 - 18:09
I was once told by a very smart man that "If you don't have the heart to take out the trash, you have no business breeding"
by Equalizer on 15 September 2010 - 19:09
Does that apply to people too?
by Two Moons on 15 September 2010 - 19:09
Yes,
world wide over population and what to do about it is being discussed.
The third world will go first.
It's a reality you should be able to see if you only look.
Moons.
by geordiegaviino on 15 September 2010 - 20:09
by Preston on 15 September 2010 - 04:09 Preston
Posts: 1573
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 04:19 am
This is tap dancing around a subject that is best not discussed on this forum because ccomments can be misinterpreted by twisted animal rights folks and used to discredit GSD breeders who care about limiting the inheritance of future genetic problems. Best to discuss these mattters one to one via PMs or phone. This subject is the hardest part of good ethical breeding.
Just be honest with your views. Thats all you can do and if you strongly believe in something then stand by it!
Also the only reason someone would want to hide their views and not want certain things to be discussed if they were hiding something themselves connected to that discussion! This isnt aimed at you Preston but if you have a feeling your in the wrong then your in the wrong!
by Steve Schuler on 14 September 2010 - 21:09
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 04:20 am
Gotta hand it to you Geordie, you have a knack for keeping clear of controversial topics...
NOT!
I never once said i was keeping clear of controversial topics, but i did say i was only going to discuss things that i felt i needed to learn more about from now on. Is this not a important topic that buyers like myself should know more about? We should know about culling and we should have the breeders tell us not some tv show that will just be looking for ratings.
I made this post, so people could openly discuss it from both sides (hopefully in a civil manner)
Posts: 1573
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 04:19 am
This is tap dancing around a subject that is best not discussed on this forum because ccomments can be misinterpreted by twisted animal rights folks and used to discredit GSD breeders who care about limiting the inheritance of future genetic problems. Best to discuss these mattters one to one via PMs or phone. This subject is the hardest part of good ethical breeding.
Just be honest with your views. Thats all you can do and if you strongly believe in something then stand by it!
Also the only reason someone would want to hide their views and not want certain things to be discussed if they were hiding something themselves connected to that discussion! This isnt aimed at you Preston but if you have a feeling your in the wrong then your in the wrong!
by Steve Schuler on 14 September 2010 - 21:09
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 04:20 am
Gotta hand it to you Geordie, you have a knack for keeping clear of controversial topics...
NOT!
I never once said i was keeping clear of controversial topics, but i did say i was only going to discuss things that i felt i needed to learn more about from now on. Is this not a important topic that buyers like myself should know more about? We should know about culling and we should have the breeders tell us not some tv show that will just be looking for ratings.
I made this post, so people could openly discuss it from both sides (hopefully in a civil manner)
To answear a quick few questions about the OP. It is mainly aimed at Culling for certain looks e.g. wrong colour but it is important that Culling 'cause of health reasons is also discussed and the topic of Culling wildlife for what ever reason is open for discussion too.
State your views, your reason for your views and your experiences (if you have any)
by mobjack on 15 September 2010 - 23:09
KCzaja
Moons pointed out an excellent example with farm raised foxes.
Another,
Dalmations and deafness. It's estimated that 10-12% of all Dalmations are deaf. A serious problem in the breed. The Dalmation Club of America's OFFICIAL position on this is that deaf dogs should not be bred and deaf pups should be humanely destroyed by a vet. Rescue groups and humane societies are advised to have the animals destroyed.
Congenital deafness has been reported in approximately 60 different breeds of dogs and it's been shown through scientific studies to be associated with pigmentation patterns where increasing amounts of white in the haircoat increase the likelihood of deafness.
IMHO, for the betterment of the breed, it's a very responsible decision made by the DCA board of directors.
Moons pointed out an excellent example with farm raised foxes.
Another,
Dalmations and deafness. It's estimated that 10-12% of all Dalmations are deaf. A serious problem in the breed. The Dalmation Club of America's OFFICIAL position on this is that deaf dogs should not be bred and deaf pups should be humanely destroyed by a vet. Rescue groups and humane societies are advised to have the animals destroyed.
Congenital deafness has been reported in approximately 60 different breeds of dogs and it's been shown through scientific studies to be associated with pigmentation patterns where increasing amounts of white in the haircoat increase the likelihood of deafness.
IMHO, for the betterment of the breed, it's a very responsible decision made by the DCA board of directors.
by Rik on 16 September 2010 - 02:09
I have culled. One whole litter for mega-e. Older dogs for severe dysplasia. A few for very poor character.
Really hard for me to grasp the idea that PETA should limit any discussion on a dog board.
But thats JMO,
Rik
Really hard for me to grasp the idea that PETA should limit any discussion on a dog board.
But thats JMO,
Rik
by Jenni78 on 16 September 2010 - 18:09
Rik, curious- did the entire litter have mega-e, or you culled the entire litter because one of them had it? I'm not judging; I'm really just curious which it was. I can see the merit in either case.
by afwark15 on 16 September 2010 - 19:09
Is it safe to say that culling because of bad temperament and/or health issues is acceptable by 'most' people, and should be accepted by breeders?
So my question is, what about showline, or whatever breeders who only care about perfect structure? Is is ok that these puppies are culled just because they have bad coloring, or not the right angulation for a conformation rating? I realize that it can be difficult to judge what a pup will be, but are there breeders who do that? And what do you think about culling these puppies who would otherwise make great companions?
Don't know if this even goes on, but I can imagine that it would......
I will say I see everyone's points in culling sick or tempermental pups, but what about when things get so specific as to color? In my opinion, these pups should be sold as pets on a spay/neuter contract, but not culled....
Amanda
So my question is, what about showline, or whatever breeders who only care about perfect structure? Is is ok that these puppies are culled just because they have bad coloring, or not the right angulation for a conformation rating? I realize that it can be difficult to judge what a pup will be, but are there breeders who do that? And what do you think about culling these puppies who would otherwise make great companions?
Don't know if this even goes on, but I can imagine that it would......
I will say I see everyone's points in culling sick or tempermental pups, but what about when things get so specific as to color? In my opinion, these pups should be sold as pets on a spay/neuter contract, but not culled....
Amanda
by Sangreinu on 16 September 2010 - 19:09
correct me if I'm wrong....
but I don't believe anyone is arguing against people culling due to diseases that are associated with color, ( as the case with the dalmations)
Aren't people so adamant about this because there hasn't been any (or at least none that i've seen, I would be happy to see some real definitive research if anyone has it ) genetic diseases/ temperamental issues found that are directly caused by blue, liver, and white dilution/masking allele in german shepherds. So far every thing i've seen excludes german shepherds from color related issues.
So in otherwords it would be culling for purely cosmetic reasons, or because said person is afraid of resulting criticism they may recieve.
but I don't believe anyone is arguing against people culling due to diseases that are associated with color, ( as the case with the dalmations)
Aren't people so adamant about this because there hasn't been any (or at least none that i've seen, I would be happy to see some real definitive research if anyone has it ) genetic diseases/ temperamental issues found that are directly caused by blue, liver, and white dilution/masking allele in german shepherds. So far every thing i've seen excludes german shepherds from color related issues.
So in otherwords it would be culling for purely cosmetic reasons, or because said person is afraid of resulting criticism they may recieve.
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