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by VonIsengard on 09 September 2010 - 19:09
Oh, is Prince a Mittelwest dog? I've trained more dog from there than you can shake a stick at, half my regulars are Mittelwest dogs. Explains a lot, her dogs are not weak.
by Steve Schuler on 09 September 2010 - 19:09
Hey Ruger!
I do not think myself qualified to give very much advice on most specifics of dog training. I have never had to deal with this level of human aggresion in a dog myself, so all I can really offer is what I think that I might do. In reading this particular thread I think that Jim (Slamdunc) has given the best general advice that has been offered up. My introductory text to dog training back in the 70's was William Koehler's "The Koehler Method". I know that times and philosophies of training have changed, and in many ways for the better. Still, I get the sense from reading some of your threads that the approriate use of a correction that is strong (forceful) enough to communicate the severity of the offense to your dog has not been grasped or employed by you. I am not trying to be harsh with you, but I am afraid that your quest for the right trainer or technique has left you somewhat confuse, unfocused, and unable to do what is necessary in this circumstance.
Again, I make no claim to be advanced in my knowledge or skills in dog training, but this is what I think I would do in dealing with this issue. I believe that I would try to set this dog up to "show his ass" and display this entirely inapproriate and intolerable aggression. At the first sign, whisper, or hint of aggression I would YANK the leash with as much force as I could muster. POP!!! his foolish head so hard that there would be no room for doubt in his mind that this behaviour is entirely, unequivicably, and without a doubt unacceptable and will not to be tolerated. I would continue to "set him up" repeatedly so as to provide ample opportunity for him to learn what will not be tolerated.
Hopefully others with more knowledge and more sense than myself will follow this comment up with better and more detailed advice. I am actually breaking a resolution not to give advice beyond my experience by writing this, but I think that your situation with Prince is in dire need of specific approaches and techniques to help you resove this ongoing behavioral problem. Again, hopefully those better qualified will chime in and possibly be able to tell you specifcally what you need to do to get a handle on this specific behavioral issue.
I have not yet done a search to read up on Slamdunc's Tabasco Technique, but I'm fixin' to.
I may be falsely presuming that you have not already employed very strong corrections with Prince in attempting to deal with this problem. If so, my apologies.
Peace,
SteveO
I do not think myself qualified to give very much advice on most specifics of dog training. I have never had to deal with this level of human aggresion in a dog myself, so all I can really offer is what I think that I might do. In reading this particular thread I think that Jim (Slamdunc) has given the best general advice that has been offered up. My introductory text to dog training back in the 70's was William Koehler's "The Koehler Method". I know that times and philosophies of training have changed, and in many ways for the better. Still, I get the sense from reading some of your threads that the approriate use of a correction that is strong (forceful) enough to communicate the severity of the offense to your dog has not been grasped or employed by you. I am not trying to be harsh with you, but I am afraid that your quest for the right trainer or technique has left you somewhat confuse, unfocused, and unable to do what is necessary in this circumstance.
Again, I make no claim to be advanced in my knowledge or skills in dog training, but this is what I think I would do in dealing with this issue. I believe that I would try to set this dog up to "show his ass" and display this entirely inapproriate and intolerable aggression. At the first sign, whisper, or hint of aggression I would YANK the leash with as much force as I could muster. POP!!! his foolish head so hard that there would be no room for doubt in his mind that this behaviour is entirely, unequivicably, and without a doubt unacceptable and will not to be tolerated. I would continue to "set him up" repeatedly so as to provide ample opportunity for him to learn what will not be tolerated.
Hopefully others with more knowledge and more sense than myself will follow this comment up with better and more detailed advice. I am actually breaking a resolution not to give advice beyond my experience by writing this, but I think that your situation with Prince is in dire need of specific approaches and techniques to help you resove this ongoing behavioral problem. Again, hopefully those better qualified will chime in and possibly be able to tell you specifcally what you need to do to get a handle on this specific behavioral issue.
I have not yet done a search to read up on Slamdunc's Tabasco Technique, but I'm fixin' to.
I may be falsely presuming that you have not already employed very strong corrections with Prince in attempting to deal with this problem. If so, my apologies.
Peace,
SteveO
by Doberdoodle on 09 September 2010 - 19:09
You should see KC for training! She knows the bloodlines, has well trained GSDs herself, and is the one to go to for working with behavior issues. I have trained a few Mittelwest dogs. One regular is an Albert son, beautiful dog and so awesome with people, and also great at bitework. But whines anxiously a lot and gets a bit nervous around other dogs, that is is only fault, he's a whiner. They have a lot of dogs and I'm sure they're all different.
I agree with what several have said with SchH trainers not necessarily dealing with behavior, they deal with training dogs for a sport more specifically. I've had clients who have not had sucess with some SchH trainers whose opinion was to put the dog down or use techniques that did not work out well. I think it's a good idea to have a trainer work hands-on with him, so he can be comfortable with another person, then instruct you. I am a big believer in board and trains where a trainer can work with the dog, has no prior history, and train and socialize, then train the owner on handling.
I agree with what several have said with SchH trainers not necessarily dealing with behavior, they deal with training dogs for a sport more specifically. I've had clients who have not had sucess with some SchH trainers whose opinion was to put the dog down or use techniques that did not work out well. I think it's a good idea to have a trainer work hands-on with him, so he can be comfortable with another person, then instruct you. I am a big believer in board and trains where a trainer can work with the dog, has no prior history, and train and socialize, then train the owner on handling.
by FHTracker on 09 September 2010 - 20:09
KC I hope you can maybe help or know someone nearby who can.
Honestly, at this point I think there is a danger that if this dog does receive a correction for real he's going to come up the leash at whoever is on the other end. It had better be someone prepared to handle that.
Honestly, at this point I think there is a danger that if this dog does receive a correction for real he's going to come up the leash at whoever is on the other end. It had better be someone prepared to handle that.
by Ruger1 on 09 September 2010 - 20:09
FHTracker...Your always filled with such good cheer.....You stress me out...
by FHTracker on 09 September 2010 - 20:09
Well then now you know how Prince feels.
by Donald Deluxe on 09 September 2010 - 20:09
"Honestly, at this point I think there is a danger that if this dog does receive a correction for real he's going to come up the leash at whoever is on the other end. It had better be someone prepared to handle that."
That's the risk any trainer assumes. A trainer who isn't prepared for that shouldn't be in the business.
That's the risk any trainer assumes. A trainer who isn't prepared for that shouldn't be in the business.
by FHTracker on 09 September 2010 - 20:09
Donald I mean more Ruger. If she delivers a proper correction at this point and isn't prepared for Prince to come up the leash on her then the situation is going to get worse.
by FHTracker on 09 September 2010 - 20:09
Before any further corrections are given to the dog, Ruger needs a hard one herself.
She's created this situation with this dog.
He's an 9 month old (8 when all this started) dog and just in the few months she's been here, she's changed training styles from AKC to SchH and back numerous times.
Has never given the dog a firm, clear indication of what she wants from him.
Is constantly inconsistant on his environment.
It's no damn wonder the dog is escalating, he has no idea what she wants from him because SHE has no idea what she wants from him.
It is not hard to shake up the magic 8 ball and see where this is going. He's taken control because he has no trust in her and when she tries to take it back there is going to be a fight.
It's insane that in just a couple threads down, we're discussing how poor ownership set up a situation where a GSD killed a smaller dog and right HERE in this thread, we're watching poor ownership set up a situation where the next question is going to be what to do WHEN... WHEN this damn dog bites someone.
She's created this situation with this dog.
He's an 9 month old (8 when all this started) dog and just in the few months she's been here, she's changed training styles from AKC to SchH and back numerous times.
Has never given the dog a firm, clear indication of what she wants from him.
Is constantly inconsistant on his environment.
It's no damn wonder the dog is escalating, he has no idea what she wants from him because SHE has no idea what she wants from him.
It is not hard to shake up the magic 8 ball and see where this is going. He's taken control because he has no trust in her and when she tries to take it back there is going to be a fight.
It's insane that in just a couple threads down, we're discussing how poor ownership set up a situation where a GSD killed a smaller dog and right HERE in this thread, we're watching poor ownership set up a situation where the next question is going to be what to do WHEN... WHEN this damn dog bites someone.
by Steve Schuler on 09 September 2010 - 20:09
Hey Ruger!
I doubt seriously that there is much chance that Prince is going to "come up the leadh" for receiving a strong correction, but that is a possibility you should be prepared to deal with prior to that event. Probably a good topic for another thread.
This is an honest question. I am not asking it to be snarky, snide, or to in any way undermine your confidence in yourself.
Have you ever given Prince a HARD correction for displaying aggression?
SteveO
I doubt seriously that there is much chance that Prince is going to "come up the leadh" for receiving a strong correction, but that is a possibility you should be prepared to deal with prior to that event. Probably a good topic for another thread.
This is an honest question. I am not asking it to be snarky, snide, or to in any way undermine your confidence in yourself.
Have you ever given Prince a HARD correction for displaying aggression?
SteveO
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