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by Rik on 28 June 2009 - 17:06
Come on guys, should have seen this one coming a mile away. Happens every couple of months and somehow the end result is always Shiloh and "my friend says".
They are just trying for free advertisement for their dogs and/or trolling for suckers.
If you want a GSD then get a GSD from a reputable breeder. If you want a GSD/Husky mix breed, then I would suggest checking the shelters in your area. Lots cheaper and probably just as much thought put into the breeding.
Rik
They are just trying for free advertisement for their dogs and/or trolling for suckers.
If you want a GSD then get a GSD from a reputable breeder. If you want a GSD/Husky mix breed, then I would suggest checking the shelters in your area. Lots cheaper and probably just as much thought put into the breeding.
Rik
by buckeyefan gsd on 28 June 2009 - 17:06
good post rik
by buckeyefan gsd on 28 June 2009 - 17:06
i'm looking to buy a beagle.one catch,needs to be 18" -20" tall,really droopy ears,weigh 60-75 lbs,but i dont want a basset i want a beagle.i know someone is breeding for giant beagles.
p.s.
i dont want it to run away or chase squirells and rabbits,just sit on the couch with me.no baying either.
p.s.
i dont want it to run away or chase squirells and rabbits,just sit on the couch with me.no baying either.
by raymond on 28 June 2009 - 17:06
wdog86 what you have to understand is that the germans in their quest to breed the best gsd possible have established a certain set of rules ! Not all people follow those breeding rules and there is much controversy about those rules. Basically two lines of gsd (show&working) each have their own standards within the lines and preferences vary from breder to breeder! If you want a gsd it will not be an option for you to choose the traits you prefere! Fact is even long time multiple gsd owners have to take the dog warts and all! Each dog will have traits that some dislike and others love but generally all gsd meet a certain set of requirements that keep them unique in the dog world!
by wdog86 on 28 June 2009 - 17:06
>I believe this is what you are looking for.
Thanks. I hadn't seen those and, yes, that is the kind of thing I am looking for.
>Prices start at $2500 though, so you may have to dig deep in your wallet.
Not a problem for me for the right dog.
>I found it on Bing - you can do the same by checking any Search
>engine, and you may find a breeder who is willing to sell for less.
I checked search engines but the searches I did ddn't turn up consistent results, to say the least. Therefore, I decided to ask in a forum where someone might know more than me.
>In the USA however I think you will find that bigger doesn't just
>mean better (and I'm being facetious) it means more expensive.
>What people here are trying to tell you is that bigger DOESN'T
>mean better - hips and longevity are almost always compromised
>once you start going over the breed standard. No dog weighing
>120+ lbs is going to live as long as one weighing 85, unless it is
>the standard for that breed (Mastiff e.g.)
Everything in life is a trade-off but I see no particular reason why someone could not breed healthy dogs with all the features I listed. It may be more difficult to do so, but no impossible. As for whether they are "better" that depends on what you mean by "better." If "better" includes things like natural desire and ability to jump over barriers and attack the guy with the puffy sleeves, then those criteria simply wouldn't come up on the list of the vast majority of people who want a family dog.
It appears that some people here seem to have a vary narrow view of what is "better". Like saying that a pickup truck is always "better" than a Cadillac. A pickup truck may be better for one person -- because they have a use for a pickup truck -- while others may have no use for hauling things and may think the cushy ride offered by the Cadillac is "better". Any adult in this world should have a broad enough point of view to recognize that "better" may be something different to other people than them. And anyone who knows anything about GSDs ought to know enough to realize that the vast majority of them never "work".
>The other thing which struck me from your post is the fact that
>you are very impressed with a dog you knew which was a
>"crowd stopper". Perhaps this is the real reason you want a
>GSD so oversized - to impress others?
I have nothing against exceptionally beautiful dogs but, no, you missed it. Thanks for the attempt at the personal slur, anyway.
While we are on the subject, why do you suppose that all these people are so tied up with their idea of "better" and talking about all their various show and Schutzhund titles? Could it be that the real reason they want these dogs is just to impress others? Are you saying that lots of them have serious ego problems?
I suggest that you don't try personal slurs against people you never met unless you want someone to point out that you may have the same issue you are trying to project on them.
But thanks for the link. Despite your weak ending there, you are the first person to give me something close to what I was looking for.
Thanks. I hadn't seen those and, yes, that is the kind of thing I am looking for.
>Prices start at $2500 though, so you may have to dig deep in your wallet.
Not a problem for me for the right dog.
>I found it on Bing - you can do the same by checking any Search
>engine, and you may find a breeder who is willing to sell for less.
I checked search engines but the searches I did ddn't turn up consistent results, to say the least. Therefore, I decided to ask in a forum where someone might know more than me.
>In the USA however I think you will find that bigger doesn't just
>mean better (and I'm being facetious) it means more expensive.
>What people here are trying to tell you is that bigger DOESN'T
>mean better - hips and longevity are almost always compromised
>once you start going over the breed standard. No dog weighing
>120+ lbs is going to live as long as one weighing 85, unless it is
>the standard for that breed (Mastiff e.g.)
Everything in life is a trade-off but I see no particular reason why someone could not breed healthy dogs with all the features I listed. It may be more difficult to do so, but no impossible. As for whether they are "better" that depends on what you mean by "better." If "better" includes things like natural desire and ability to jump over barriers and attack the guy with the puffy sleeves, then those criteria simply wouldn't come up on the list of the vast majority of people who want a family dog.
It appears that some people here seem to have a vary narrow view of what is "better". Like saying that a pickup truck is always "better" than a Cadillac. A pickup truck may be better for one person -- because they have a use for a pickup truck -- while others may have no use for hauling things and may think the cushy ride offered by the Cadillac is "better". Any adult in this world should have a broad enough point of view to recognize that "better" may be something different to other people than them. And anyone who knows anything about GSDs ought to know enough to realize that the vast majority of them never "work".
>The other thing which struck me from your post is the fact that
>you are very impressed with a dog you knew which was a
>"crowd stopper". Perhaps this is the real reason you want a
>GSD so oversized - to impress others?
I have nothing against exceptionally beautiful dogs but, no, you missed it. Thanks for the attempt at the personal slur, anyway.
While we are on the subject, why do you suppose that all these people are so tied up with their idea of "better" and talking about all their various show and Schutzhund titles? Could it be that the real reason they want these dogs is just to impress others? Are you saying that lots of them have serious ego problems?
I suggest that you don't try personal slurs against people you never met unless you want someone to point out that you may have the same issue you are trying to project on them.
But thanks for the link. Despite your weak ending there, you are the first person to give me something close to what I was looking for.
by wdog86 on 28 June 2009 - 18:06
>In my honest opinion, there are great shepherds that grow to the top
>of the standard, 26 inches that weigh 90-100lbs and are really a good
>sized dog, very imposing and big enough in my opinion. A dog any larger,
>(which my neighbour has a LSC show line that must be 28 inches),
>doesn't look attractive to me. Too long and gangly, (mind you he is thin
>to boot), but not proportioned in my opinion.
My friend's dog was not long and gangly. He was pretty beefy and muscular. But that's your opinion and you are free to buy whatever kind of dog suits you. That's why we have multiple breeds of dog -- because opinions vary. It is also why auto dealers sell car in different colors, why restaurants offer different kinds of dishes on their menus, etc. It seems that everyone wants something different. Respect for other peoples' points of view -- whether you particularly agree with them or not -- would seem to be a healthy part of an adult way of thinking.
>What Moons said was really really true. When a breeder starts breeding
>for one trait, in this case extra large shepherds, they let other really
>important traits fall to the wayside.
As I said before, that seems like a hasty generalization that I have seen to be untrue in at least several cases. It doesn't seem to me that wanting a large GSD is necessarily a sign that the person is an unethical charlatan. I know for a fact that there are other people like me who want a very big, healthy GSD, and I have met a few current and former breeders (who weren't trying to sell me anything) who agreed with me.
>of the standard, 26 inches that weigh 90-100lbs and are really a good
>sized dog, very imposing and big enough in my opinion. A dog any larger,
>(which my neighbour has a LSC show line that must be 28 inches),
>doesn't look attractive to me. Too long and gangly, (mind you he is thin
>to boot), but not proportioned in my opinion.
My friend's dog was not long and gangly. He was pretty beefy and muscular. But that's your opinion and you are free to buy whatever kind of dog suits you. That's why we have multiple breeds of dog -- because opinions vary. It is also why auto dealers sell car in different colors, why restaurants offer different kinds of dishes on their menus, etc. It seems that everyone wants something different. Respect for other peoples' points of view -- whether you particularly agree with them or not -- would seem to be a healthy part of an adult way of thinking.
>What Moons said was really really true. When a breeder starts breeding
>for one trait, in this case extra large shepherds, they let other really
>important traits fall to the wayside.
As I said before, that seems like a hasty generalization that I have seen to be untrue in at least several cases. It doesn't seem to me that wanting a large GSD is necessarily a sign that the person is an unethical charlatan. I know for a fact that there are other people like me who want a very big, healthy GSD, and I have met a few current and former breeders (who weren't trying to sell me anything) who agreed with me.
by wdog86 on 28 June 2009 - 18:06
>i'm looking to buy a beagle.one catch,needs to be 18" -20" tall,really
>droopy ears,weigh 60-75 lbs,but i dont want a basset i want a beagle.
>i know someone is breeding for giant beagles.
>p.s.
>i dont want it to run away or chase squirells and rabbits,just sit on the
>couch with me.no baying either.
If you can find any significant number of people who agree with you then I am sure someone will eventually breed for those traits.
As for the traits I listed, I have seen dogs like that before, and I have met a lot of people who say that is what they want. Therefore, such dogs do exist.
But thanks for offering no real help at all and just crapping in the thread. Did you mistake that for an intelligent response to something?
>droopy ears,weigh 60-75 lbs,but i dont want a basset i want a beagle.
>i know someone is breeding for giant beagles.
>p.s.
>i dont want it to run away or chase squirells and rabbits,just sit on the
>couch with me.no baying either.
If you can find any significant number of people who agree with you then I am sure someone will eventually breed for those traits.
As for the traits I listed, I have seen dogs like that before, and I have met a lot of people who say that is what they want. Therefore, such dogs do exist.
But thanks for offering no real help at all and just crapping in the thread. Did you mistake that for an intelligent response to something?
by CrysBuck25 on 28 June 2009 - 18:06
Good luck in your search, wdog86. I hope you find what you are looking for. Furthermore, I hope you are one of the lucky ones who gets a huge, healthy dog that never has hip or elbow troubles, or any of the other myriad of problems common to the GSD.
I'm sure they exist, so I wish you the best. It's just that, from what I've seen, it doesn't seem like it's a good idea. But hey, we're all entitled to our opinions.
The reason so much stress tends to be put upon the working abilities of the GSD is not because every single dog is going to be a working dog; quite the contrary. Most will not be working dogs, and will be family dogs. It is the fact that they have been bred for what they have been bred for that they have the intelligence to be such wonderful family dogs. Except in most American pedigrees of today, if you look at a GSD pedigree from, say Germany, or Belgium, you'll see that most of the dogs in that pedigree have achieved some sort of working title. It's the ability to do a job, perpetuated over many generations, that leads to smart pets.
Good luck with your search. May the purchase price of your dog far exceed the vet bills....
Crys
One other thing...I think if you ask most of the Schutzhund trainers and handlers here, they'll probably tell you that sleeve isn't particular fluffy...It's HEAVY:-)
I'm sure they exist, so I wish you the best. It's just that, from what I've seen, it doesn't seem like it's a good idea. But hey, we're all entitled to our opinions.
The reason so much stress tends to be put upon the working abilities of the GSD is not because every single dog is going to be a working dog; quite the contrary. Most will not be working dogs, and will be family dogs. It is the fact that they have been bred for what they have been bred for that they have the intelligence to be such wonderful family dogs. Except in most American pedigrees of today, if you look at a GSD pedigree from, say Germany, or Belgium, you'll see that most of the dogs in that pedigree have achieved some sort of working title. It's the ability to do a job, perpetuated over many generations, that leads to smart pets.
Good luck with your search. May the purchase price of your dog far exceed the vet bills....
Crys
One other thing...I think if you ask most of the Schutzhund trainers and handlers here, they'll probably tell you that sleeve isn't particular fluffy...It's HEAVY:-)
by wdog86 on 28 June 2009 - 18:06
>wdog86 what you have to understand is that the germans in their quest
>to breed the best gsd possible have established a certain set of rules !
>Not all people follow those breeding rules and there is much controversy
>about those rules. Basically two lines of gsd (show&working) each have
>their own standards within the lines and preferences vary from breder to
>breeder!
I understand that. I also understand that certain rules are made for a purpose. What some people don't seem to understand is that other people in the world vary somewhat and may not have the same purposes. Therefore, other people don't necessarily view those often arbitrary rules as Commandments from God. For example, I am sure the rules state that the ears must stand up straight. Well, for some people who just want family dogs, it doesn't really matter whether the ears stand up straight. Things like personality would be a lot more important than straight ears. You may notice that I didn't list "straight ears" as a requirement. Straight ears are nice, but floppy ears wouldn't bother me if everything else I wanted was there. I don't intend to show the dog, so it just isn't much of an issue. It is going to be MY dog, not theirs, so I make the rules on what matters to me.
Yeah, I know that is heresy that will get me burned at the stake, but it just happens to be true.
>If you want a gsd it will not be an option for you to choose the traits
>you prefere!
If I am writing the check, then it is always my option. Otherwise, no check. Same with any other purchase. When you go to buy a car, does the dealer pick one out for you and tell you that you don't have an option, so fork over the cash?
>Fact is even long time multiple gsd owners have to take the dog warts and all!
>Each dog will have traits that some dislike and others love but generally all gsd
>meet a certain set of requirements that keep them unique in the dog world!
Warts wouldn't bother me unless they were really excessive. But my friend got one that exactly fits the description, so I know it is certainly possible.
>to breed the best gsd possible have established a certain set of rules !
>Not all people follow those breeding rules and there is much controversy
>about those rules. Basically two lines of gsd (show&working) each have
>their own standards within the lines and preferences vary from breder to
>breeder!
I understand that. I also understand that certain rules are made for a purpose. What some people don't seem to understand is that other people in the world vary somewhat and may not have the same purposes. Therefore, other people don't necessarily view those often arbitrary rules as Commandments from God. For example, I am sure the rules state that the ears must stand up straight. Well, for some people who just want family dogs, it doesn't really matter whether the ears stand up straight. Things like personality would be a lot more important than straight ears. You may notice that I didn't list "straight ears" as a requirement. Straight ears are nice, but floppy ears wouldn't bother me if everything else I wanted was there. I don't intend to show the dog, so it just isn't much of an issue. It is going to be MY dog, not theirs, so I make the rules on what matters to me.
Yeah, I know that is heresy that will get me burned at the stake, but it just happens to be true.
>If you want a gsd it will not be an option for you to choose the traits
>you prefere!
If I am writing the check, then it is always my option. Otherwise, no check. Same with any other purchase. When you go to buy a car, does the dealer pick one out for you and tell you that you don't have an option, so fork over the cash?
>Fact is even long time multiple gsd owners have to take the dog warts and all!
>Each dog will have traits that some dislike and others love but generally all gsd
>meet a certain set of requirements that keep them unique in the dog world!
Warts wouldn't bother me unless they were really excessive. But my friend got one that exactly fits the description, so I know it is certainly possible.
by buckeyefan gsd on 28 June 2009 - 18:06
you crapped the thread from the first post.they have standards for a reason.i dont necessarily depend on titles but size is a huge problem.health and longevity are good things and just like oversized humans,there are extra problems with oversized shepherds.there are plenty of people that are doin this.good luck.
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