GERMAN TV PROGRAMME - ABOUT THE GSD - Page 4

Videx is correct, you must give statistics to support such allegations. Providing a one sided argument based on what you percieve is the situation today without factual support on the situation of that perception being worse than yesterday is rendered useless without facts to back up the theory and therefore serves no practical purpose other than the practice of scare mongering.

With regard to the person who made the presumption that the sudden appearence of 3 TV programmes was somehow proof of this perception this need only be likened to 3 x Xfactor type programmes, 3 x Deal or No deal programmes, 3 x Weakest Link, 3 x Do you want to be a Millionaire, need I go on? Fact is whenever a TV company in one country comes up with a sensational money making idea it 'aint too long before the rest automatically sieze the opportunity to jump onto the Bandwagon - doesnt necessarily mean that particular Bandwagon is sound, it could be it just happened to pass by at that moment in time, and a bit like the song 3 Wheels on my Wagon , it just kept rolling along!!

Surely one realises that with the advancement of Medical Science it is inevitable for the cause of more and more illnesses to be found and defined but as they are does this really mean that all living creatures are today less healthy than yesteryear or just that we are now more aware of what the illnesses are and how to treat them? Sixty, Fifty, Forty, Thirty or even twenty years ago exactly how many dogs were being treated by vets for the variety of illnesses they are treated for today, indeed how many owners could either afford or be bothered to take their dogs to the vets for treatment of some of these illnesses ? Apart from the fact that so many years ago precisely how many vets (without the age of computer records) kept or at least submitted such medical stats to an institute that could make an accurate comparison with those computerised submissions of today???

Methinks my friends sometimes we all presume too much from what we perceive, and I dont rule myself out of that either!!
 Nothing and no-one is infallible !!!

Regards
Sue b

It means 30% of the X-rayed GSDs had HD C or worse, you can see some statistics here how many % in each grading, it´s in swedish but you can see the numbers anyway I guess,
http://www.schaferhundklubben.se/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=330&Itemid=72

The argument that showline dogs are good but you don´t see them because they don´t enter workingtests is not holding up either, there are actually statisical proof that the best results in the swedish form of mentalitytests are obtained by breeders who breeds for working with workinglines, those kennels that have a number of their offspring tested but breed more for show are not showing the same good values in traits like  for ecample preydrive and general boldness.

Sue and Videx, I again only assert my opinion......i donot perceive my opinion as infallible nor do I assert that it is.  As to missing the most important reference(Videx), in YOUR opinion this aspect of Mr. Raiser is most important to YOU in regard to this conversation. Unfortunately you don't define the parameters of discussion for me when the OP had to do with the breed in general. Sweden has done many studies on the GS, they also have very good police schools, Germany has police dog training schools, the military has over 50 years of continuing to train and improve working capacity of dogs. there is plenty of  places to get informed opinions or statistical data on the working condition of the German Shepherd today. Sue, I am not of the belief that my perception has to be gospel, but i try hard to form my opinions on what I have experienced in enough instances to feel comfortable. I usually speak on the working ability or nonability of the GS, again I will say that time will tell. I will go silent on this subject, but I think that SV2000 will have a much better future than is perceived by the so called critics. Peace!

 Gustav: Peace!

Gustav, I utterley respect your right to your opinion and play devils advocate here only offering argument via debate and not out of any malice. I do hope you realised that.

Neither have I nor would I ever, critisise any organisation working towards the betterment of any breed and that includes SV2000. If it turns out their way is in the end the only way, then as you say the GSD will be 'SAVED', so it would be foolish for me or indeed anyone to critisise them. So Gustav Peace with me also. Debate is good, as is difference of opinions when those opinions are formed through belief as I believe we have all done here on this thread, rather than through bias and bigottry as was the case with Jemima PDE.

Best Regards
Sue b

Sue and Videx, my dialogue is never based in malice or hurtfulness....I respect both of your knowledges and points of view...they differ from mine as your forum of operation is different from mine.....there are areas of common ground that we both agree.......I don't think the SV needs to save the GS, better like to restore it...peace out!(smile)!