anyone get to the top without electric? - Page 4

ShelleyStrohl writes:

"The e-coller is for me a finishing device, used very judiciaciously (sp?) for some distance training, but only to reinforce and already well-learned and well-understood (by the dog) behavior. It is, fo me, NOT a teaching device. I teach the exercises the old fashioned way. Although I rarely have occasion to use the e-collar, there are indeed some things that it is absolutely perfect for, in the right hands."

That's it!  You said exactly right in a few lines what I couldn't manage to get out in paragraphs on this and the other thread!

I agree with you 100%.  That quote should be saved and simply reposted whenever the e-collar discussion comes up.
 

Let me start by answering the question that started this discussion. There are no trainers that have been in the top 5 at any event in the last 10 yrs that doesn't use a E collar. What is funny is how people always say they never use force or abuse when in fact anything you are teaching a your dog is a forced behavior.  teaching them to sit, heel or jump is a forced behavior. We can all say its motivation or blah blah blah but really you are forcing your dog to exhibit a behavior the way you want it done. Molly and Shelly Strohl no disrespect to yall and all the acomplishment that you have had in the sport( i hope to be at your levels someday) but to say you use the E collar to polish and never use force is creative thinking in my opinion. Please explain to why if your dog sitting at the speed you want it to sit or is doing the well learned behavior would you need a E collar? Now if it isn't doing it at a speed you like or incorrectly isn't the use of any correction in fact a forcing your dog to do it the way you want to have it done. There is a big difference between force and abuse. Simply put show me a dog that is sch titled and ill show you a dog that has been forced into a behavior. The E collar is a training tool that can be used both positive and negatively. I just haven't found or seen a way to compete on a high level without using it. All that say they do it without the E collar or force kindly ask in a very respectful way "in the last 5 yrs how many times have you been in the top 5 at the nationals, or world level? there answer will be simply 0



ceddy

Podium dogs make lots of money and prestige.  That is real.  Unfortunately only a few of these dogs are good producers for the qualities one expect from a true GSD.  Schutzhund was once a test for breed worthiness, now it has become a sport where “points” matters.  So it is not surprising that good handlers will resort to whatever training tools available to attain their goals.  Nothing wrong with that as long as it is not abuse.