Max von Stephanitz and SV??? - Page 4

[sigh!] No, missy bee. It's just that I knew where to find the link because the topic of the Alsatian vs. the GSD has been beaten to death on this site for the last couple of weeks. And it was obvious SitasMom didn't realized the whole breed standard didn't post.

Cate - will you post a list the the titles to these books? (love your dancing dog photo)

Sunsliver - thanks for finishing my post - didn't realize it was truncated.

Does anyone else have books form the 1900 thru the 1940's they can list that would help?

Thanks all,

Kim

missbeeb -- I think it's mostly that many folks tend to disagree with him on what the ideal structure is.

~Cate

I have most of them at home, but I can name a couple of the top of my head :

1949 - The Complete German Shepherd -- Milo Denlinger
1924 - The German Shepherd in Word and Picture -- Max v. Stephanitz
1924 - The History of the Shepherd Dog - Journal of Heredity -- Ann Tracy

aaaand the rest of them I will post when I get home.

(if you send me an email at Falconarak9@hotmail.com, I'll see if I can't get ahold of a copy of the j.hered article for you...it's really hard to find copies of this journal at this age unless you are near a major library or University.)

If you are interested in some of the old books though...abebooks.com is a great place to look...I usually type in GSD and limit the publishing dates and purchase the things that I dont already have (when I have the money too O.o)

~Cate

You're welcome, SitasMom. You have to watch it: long posts often get cut off on the Data Base. I make a habit of copying any long posts before pressing 'send', so I don't lose anything if the whole thing won't go through.

As everyone who isn't a total newcomer to the breed knows, there is a lot of disagreement over what constitutes the 'ideal' Shepherd. Some favour working lines, which resemble more closely the dogs of Max's era. Videx thinks the German show lines are the ONLY true representative of the breed, and that everyone should conform to that ideal.

We are never going to all see eye to eye on this. Each country has its own 'flavour' of GSD. The Czech dogs and the East German dogs are both slightly different from the West German working lines. The Alsatian (U.K.) dog is different again. And then, of course, there's the American line dogs, which have gone in a totally different direction (overangulated joints, long backs, steep, upright shoulders.)

To think that we're going to get EVERYONE to agree on what the true GSD should look like is the height of arrogance.

Personally, I prefer a dog that looks like the shepherds from Max's era, or from the 1950's and 60's, before Germany and America went their separate ways. Fans of the current German showlines think I'm totally out of step with the times and that the current showlines are WAY, WAY better than these dogs. I look at the roach backs, the wobbly, overangulated hocks and shake my head. I also read the breed standard, compare it with the pictures of today's top showline dogs, and scratch my poor little head, because what I'm reading doesn't seem to match up with what I'm seeing in the flesh. (Same goes for the American standard!)

Let's face it, folks. We're NEVER going to agree on this!

I've seen both American and German Showlines in person...both here in the USA, in Switzlerand and in Italy (spent some time in Holland too)...I spend a fair amount of time travelling overseas to see my grandmother.

One of the main reasons I went with the BBS is because of their structure (I hadn't heard of working lines at that point)....because they look alot more solid then alot of the Highlines and Showlines I have seen...which to my eye have weak rears or weak backs, or wompy backs or a combination of the above.

I've also seen K9's overseas...and they tend to be working line shepherds or one of the other shepherd breeds....which says something to me.  Hec -- I've seen more BBSs working K9 in France and Switzerland and Italy than I have seen Highlines.  I actually saw more whites working as stockdogs in Holland then I saw Highlines...though I wasnt in that country long.

The breed did change during Max's time....but it wasnt until after he died that the dogs stopped having to jump straight walls and the like.  I would like to see those dogs that can still do that.

~Cate