Your advice for an agressive dog, please!! - Page 4

Playing devil's advocate for a moment........why are excuses routinely made for aggressive Schutzhund/sport dogs? I have heard of cases of sport dogs turning on their owners/handlers and few would suggest those dogs be put down. In a case earlier this year a spectator was bitten on the Schutzhund field and I don't recall anyone suggesting that dog be put down. I have heard that Paska Salztalblick was very aggressive and could not be allowed to interact with the public, yet he was considered a top stud dog. How many would suggest having this dog put down if he was Schutzhund titled?

A very fair and valid point, triodegirl. Why indeed?

If the dog had schutzhund titles he would have to pass a tempernment test.  even schutzhund 3 dogs are still watched by the judges.  what the dog does off the field and not seen by the judge is one thing.   if a  dog has issues on the field the judge would (or should) dismiss him. 

john

Excuses are NOT and should not be made for Schutzhund dogs. I train in SchH and I have stable, sound temperamented dogs as do many people I know. Once in a while a dog escapes scrutiny and passes a temperament test when it should not, but there is no excuse for a dog who is plainly aggressive.

That being said, if you are bringing up the situation where the dog was brought to the field to interact with yours or someone else's mother, lots and I mean lots of mistakes were made on both sides. That incident does not suggest that all Schutzhund dogs should be or are aggressive. You are mixing apples and oranges here.

imo an excellent next step is to find a trainer (or 2) who specializes is aggressive dogs, someone who knows and likes gsds.  then have a fair, unbiased, in-person evaluation done even if you have to drive a bit to get to the right person.  Buddy's situation needs to be assessed fairly and you simply can't do that over email even with video. Buddiy's complete history is unknown, he might have had a good first 6 months if that's the case he could very well be saved provided this is just an environmental problem.  you just don't know until you have a truly skilled trainer do a fair evaluation.  so, imo, if you want to try and save him i think contacting not just any trainer or rescue org but someone who specialize in 'rehabbing'  aggressive abused dogs.

on the SATS website is listed 2 trainers in Sterling, VA
Thomas & Jenny Roberts
here's the link where you will find a link to their email http://synalia.com/sats-trainers-facilities/sats-trainers/

also Kayce Cover who developed this system is in SE VA http://synalia.com

the TTouch trainer is in N VA - 703 area code http://www.evergreenttouch.com/ she's ex-navy so i would think probably a bit hard to intimidate <g>

unfortunately the link vox posted http://www.brandonfouche.com/ is in LA, CA but might be worth contacting to see if they know someone in N VA

i'm not sure this article will help but i thought the title was fitting "Why A Growl Is Good" http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/why-growl-good

and on a side but related note: Janis Bradley wrote a very interesting book entitled "Dogs Bite" worth reading imo. it's not a training book or problem solving book, so won't help you rehab Buddy, but she does discuss the misconceptions and fears surrounding dogs and their aggressive behaviors - including resource guarding - interesting and great info especially in this age of dangerous dog legislation.

best of luck & i hth,
susan

Flower essence does not prevent a dog from biting someone who tries to remove its' food bowl when it is aggressive over same. - hodie

i guess i'm not able to let this comment pass so i'm going to address it. 2 things:

1) i never suggested that giving rescue rem would prevent or solve the problem - that's all you.  i can't quite figure out why you took this huge leap implying i was saying rescue rem would cure this dog - this is just plain silly of you.  

rescue rem is for the dog to relax so he won't be so reactive which will be for his comfort.  this has little to do with his growling which sounds like resource guarding to me, which is instinctive and reinforced by his experiences. but rescue rem might take the edge off and make the dog not so stresses out, which is simply a nice thing to do for the dog.

2) if you have no real experience with flower essences you can't possibly know what they can or can't do. flower essence have a long history and are just another tool available to use if one so chooses - no one has ever said they work miracles.

imo the best way to deal with any problem is a multi-prong approach, so staying open to all avenues is a good thing - lay out your options in front of you then come up with a plan of action that make sense to you and the situation you are facing.

bottom line - regarding flower essences - when you are dealing with a life or death issue what is $5-10 and a few drops into a bowl of water - why not try it who knows your world might just end up a little bigger and a little better for it, and the dog might be able to relax a bit more than he had been able to do before taking them - even if you end up putting him down - jmo

 "when you are dealing with a life or death issue what is $5-10 and a few drops into a bowl of water - why not try it"

Answer: because it is irresponsible to suggest something like this when the dog is seriously aggressive. It is yet another attempt at anthropomorphizing a dog and just plain poor advice. It also suggests one has little real world experience with hundreds and hundreds of GSDs and other large breed dogs, some of whom are very seriously aggressive.

Let me tell you a story and you can decide whether there's some application in it for your situation.  A woman in my club does rescue and she rescued a GSD from a situation similar to your dog's - tied in a yard, no positive human contact, lots of medical problems and aggressive. She got the bitch healthy again, but never really trusted her. She couldn't turn her back on the bitch. The animal did resource guarding and had to be out of it's kennel in order for food and water to be put in the kennel. The bitch would growl unpredictably. One day the lady was working in her kennel area and let the bitch out. The bitch growled, snarled, then attacked full bore. The animal ripped the lady's jacket and bit down to the bone. She was afraid the dog would kill her if she fell down. She and her kennel helper finally subdued the dog and got it into a crate somehow. The lady's first stop was the vet's office to sign a euthanasia order and leave the bitch. Her next stop was the emergency room for stitches. If she had fallen and no one had been around to help her, this story might have made the news as a vicious GSD kills owner story.

Your motives were good in rescuing the dog. Unfortunately some dogs are so damaged that they cannot be rehabilitated. It sounds like you are familiar with GSDs and this dog is more than you can handle. You may have to do the best thing for all concerned and euthanize.

Triodegirl,

I would have no use for a dog who would bite his handler either, one that could not be trusted if it got loose in public.

Some people see this as a plus and strive for it..  I'm not one of those people.  That's not what a GSD mean's to me, title's or no.

Plus your talking about trained animal's who have not been abused as some would define abuse, and are in the hand's of people experienced with such animals', not an amature with no experience and who as kid's and the public to think about.

This is apple's and orange's.    Not the same situation at all.

Brent.

Just curious,

Have you ever had a large dog with attitude in your face and nowhere to run?   

Or seen a small child after being mauled?

Or even just been bitten?  

Ever see what a real dog attack looks like, I don't mean a bite or grabbing a sleeve, I mean shaking and pulling and not letting go.

Ever see a German Shepherd kill an 80 pound ram?     I have.

Anyway, it's worth more than 5-10 $ and a few drop's if you had.

Moon's.