Showline sires who produce dogs who can work? - Page 4

Nice boy, Ravi!

Blitzen

You are referring to Ravi's dog, Juneau, the same one I referred to.  Of course, despite showing the proper structure (V-rated) and obvious working ability-even if he produces near-clones of himself,  just see if the show folks breed to him.  .

They all passed on Laius, claiming that they could not breed to him, because he and his handler moved to France.  This from folks who ship bitches to Germany several times a year, if not monthly!!    Whenthat is pointed out to them, the song becomes " I am trying to improve the upper arm."  UPPER ARM????   Bottom Line:  Character, including working ability and good nerves, do not matter as much as length of croup, upper arm and pigment to some.  So be it.  

I don't "think" Juneau has been bred, yet.   Hopefully, some of the show folks will at least see what he will produce, particularly to see if he passes on his own character.   Suzanne Eviston has a show bitch who works like a sable in a red& black coat and has an excellent temperament and solid nerves.   I'd take a puppy by Juneau out of her in a minute!!   

Ravi's dog is EXCELLENT in the work!  I understand he is training well for the US title.

SS

The most likely ways that Ravi will succeed in having quality bitches bred to Juneau is to donate his services or to buy or lease some quality females to breed to him.  Perhaps Juneau's breeder may breed to him and give him the boost he needs?

IOW, just because he can work, people may be reluctant to chance that he can produce this ability until they see several litters from him. Rightfully so--or just a reality check?

People on these internet boards give a lot of lip service without putting their money where their mouths are. I know what I'm talking about--based on my experience with having top-working, SL studs over the past 40 years. Not sour grapes!

Besides, any reportedly good-working male could win titles at events such as this: http://www.ogaguadulce.com/galleries.html# Draw your own conclusions--LOL!

I meant are there any black and red workingline dogs. Veronica said there are few around anymore so I assume color was never a big priority with the workingline people. They selected for other traits?  Sable is the dominate color then?

Sadly, all breeds are subject to the popular stud syndrome and no matter how often the genetic experts warn us to be careful and not continue to use the same dogs over and over, it just never seems to sink in. It seems like it's more about selling puppies than bettering the breed. There are most likely a great many outstanding GSD's sitting in backyards or HOT dogs that are trialed locally  and never campaigned in the conformation ring.  They are around, it just takes some thinking out of the box to find them and convince one's self to use them for breeding.  I  hope some of you with the good dogs that don't get the credit they are due will have them collected and frozen just in case the GSD world gets a wake up call one day.  That happened to me a few  years ago with a dog I bred in 81, not a GSD. He was used very sparingly then, but now everyone wants his bloodines as they are extinct. It could happen to you. We are such schleps for the judges; they, not the breeders,  rule the  dog world and dictate style, function, and type whether or not it is correct per the breed standard. Example - roachy toplines.

I wish Ravi the best of luck with his boy, Juneau. I am one of his biggest fan  (and Ravi's  pretty OK too ). Love seeing  those HOT dogs do well.

Another stupid question - are there no rules regarding the height of the hurdles and walls?

Yes, and apparently he and Karen Sinclair with Ule v. Temar are apparenlty the only ones among the show line folks who were not just churning  hyperbole to sell "faux" Universal Sieger puppies and stud fees.   We'd die, if we held our breaths until the others even confirmed in a bare-faced claim that they were going to actually trial ANY of the other so-called Universal Sieger declarants.   I notice that NONE answered my repeated queries on the thread as to whether they did intend to actually try to qualify for the USA Nationals.

I hope that next year, not only are the performance rules enforced, but the dogs must have already at least trialed in a USA trial within a year, in order to even "declare" for Universal Sieger.   It is simply dishonest for people to declare for a title that they have NO intention of actually pursuing.   Requiring at least a club trial prior to the SS might eliminate the phonies.

He's already been mentioned by VA Karats Ulko is a VERY high drive dog that passes that trait on.  I train with Charlie Starr and his club, and have been fortunate to see Ulko work and MANY of his progeny.  He's even better looking in person than his pictures.  Very impressive dog. 

Also overseas VA Nando vom Gollerweiher and V Djenges Kahn Santes Home are producing very well.  I have a Nando son and he's simply amazing, and have talked with other people who own Nando progeny.  Djenges was reported to have the best bitework at the Seiger Show and is being widlely used in Germany. 

V Ilay vom Nordkristal I've heard A LOT of wonderful things about.  I've talked with the owner in hopes to breed my females to him. He is very nicely bred, w/an althernative pedigree of showline dogs that can work.  Very impressive.  Quartz grandson.  He is owned by a breeder in the Netherlands but is in the US for breeding until after the NASS before he goes back. 

What about Urban vom Gleisenauer Schloss? http://www.lundborg-land.com/german-shepherds/german-shepherd-studs/va-urban

Great comment on your 2nd to last post Blitzen.Oh so true.There will be a wake up call one day.By what you said it only re-enforces that the one individual male that I have should have have his sperm collected and frozen.A dear elderly friend had advised me to do this.I havent done it yet.He has only sired two litters.Thanks for that comment.