Looking to buy a Protection dog Help Please - Page 4

Please understand there is no one best device to use as ultimate protection.  Each has their pros and cons.  But, this can be said:  A true PPD will create a period of distraction that can afford the handler the opportunity create time and distance from the situation that will increase the odds of the handler escaping unharmed.  

A true protection dog will, without thought of outcome, protect its handler.  If I'm handling a true protection dog and I'm in a circumstance where the dogs training is needed, I'm sending the dog and I'm running.  If the bad guys shoots at, stabs at, or in some other way harms the dog, the dog has done it's job - that first shot, stab, etc. was not directed at me and I have be allotted the time to distance myself from the situation.

Unfortunately, and in my case, my GSD is a companion dog that happens to be trained as a PPD as a sport.  I'm ceratin that he is civil enough to bite if needed and until the time presents, I'm not sure how I would act/command, nor do I know if he would fully commit himself to the task. Again, it's sport training and as sport training I'm trying to beat the sport, not protect my life.

Agar,

Something I've always seen with my dogs going back to when the kids were baby's is they sense a child's vulnerability and naturally seem to want to protect them, watch over them, and put up with them.   My oldest boy had a very special relationship with a male I had at the time.  Just like you mentioned with your daughter, the same kind of things.   And my younger boy had a female at the right time who would watch over him as if he was her own pup.  Devoted comes to mind.

I think all my dogs have had more devotion to the kids than to me until the last few years and the kids are grown up and gone most of the time.  I can't say it's only the shepherd that does this either, but they are good at it.   And yes you have to train your dog to the task to have any confidence.  And I agree some dogs may lack the courage to actually give their life in defense of someone.   I think the reason some people get the wrong idea about protection trained dogs is their owners.

I imagine you can understand what I mean without me going into specific's.   I'm in a rush because its time to take care of other business outside.

Catah ya later.

agar,

 i agree about the personality/temperment of a good ppd. anyone that knows me and meets my male can't believe such a dog would/could protect my family. my kids 4 and 1 also play with him, my 1 yr old can use his hair or tail to pull herself up, sometimes he'll even nudge her under her diaper with his nose to help her up! i try to explain to them that because of his confidence and temperment is 1 of the things that make him a great ppd/ working dog. i think alot of them can now see the diference in the nerve/caliber of dogs that they have seen and what i have. usually the next question is when are you going to breed him? at that point i have to try an educate them on waiting for his ofa, making sure there would be homes for all or most of the pups before and telling them we just started training him for a title so it may be a while? it's funny to watch them shake their head and tell me i'm way to into my dogs. to each their own i guess. i love my dogs and want to do right by them, but i don't try to explain that to them as most are not interested to the level of the few of us.

sincerely kenny

Kenny- That is the story of my life listening to people tell me how nutts I am over my dogs.  Unless you are a "dog person" you really can't relate to the "sickness" we have. lol  It sounds like you have yourself a real nice dog.  What bloodlines is he from if you don't mind me asking.  Mine are mostly czech dogs with a little east german in there to give a nice blend. lol

Uglydog- I take it your wife is not a "dog person"?? lol  My husband tolerates my dog obsessions but drew the line at the 3rd dog.  Surprisingly I have a pretty good handle on the dog hair and have a nice set up here for them.  There's kennels outside they spend the nicer days in and it keeps the yard still nice, I have crates in the garage for when my bitch is in heat or they are blowing serious coats so that eliminates the fur flying and last but not least I have invested in a dyson, a furminator and a cleaning lady that comes every other week. lol  Maybe if you made a deal with the wife and got her a cleaning lady you MIGHT have a chance on getting the ok on that GSD???  I think all women are "princess'" to some degree, just some are more than others.

AGAR...Nope, shes not a dog peson.  More of a Goldfish person. We're working on it, and shes making good progress.

I told her before we married, that Im a big hunter. Every weekend from Oct through Feb. Early morning duck hunts, up at 3:30 am etc.   Sort of my obsession.

Funny story, I goose hunted on Christmas Eve. Got my limit of geese.  Hurried home to go to mother in laws house. I Left geese in the trunk, Thinking they were dead as  they hadnt moved since being shot.    Wife came out to put Christmas gifts in the trunk.   One goose was sitting straight up, looking right at her, & gave her the shock of her life.   He was playing "Possum". He was our Christmas goose.

Far as hair goes, do you own a Furminator?  Do they really help?    My present dog has a wire coat and is a gem. Not much hair at all.  

When all else fails, hire a cleaning lady. Doubt my wife could refuse..

But I dont know what she'd do with all of that extra time on her hands!

Uglydog,

Marriage is a give and take arraingement you must negotiate!!  LOL.    Scaring the wife with geese does not get you any leverage LOL .    That was funny.    

I have dogs in the house and it can be a mess but you dont have to give them run of the whole house, designate area's that are easy to clean up and really the hairs only a problem during shedding phase's, they aren't that bad all the time.

And what woman could resist a little soft puppy with those big brown eyes and that sweet puppy breath.  Tell her you found it at the side of the road and couldn't just leave it there...lol

A good marriage will have its ups and downs how well it thrives depends on the individuals and how well they care for each other, its a slippery slope....  you have about a 50/50 chance these days.

Good luck with it.

Agar:
My point to all that is, by and large, we have had to read MORE about people buying such from SCAMMERS only to find out the dog hides under the chair most of the time, or jumps at you popping your gum, shows itself unpredictable etc.  than people coming on here saying, "I got this and got exactly what I wanted-I'm thrilled."
Is all PP dogs super-aggressive or unreliable? NO.
Are there good ones out there that would behave properly and would be fine outta the crate? YES.
But from reading the experiences posted here plus plenty from people who have told me first-hand of terrible experience trying to buy a "personal protection" GSD, especially when dealing with someone who claims to be a newbie like Shep007, they are better off NOT trying  to buy such unless they have truly found a reputable place to buy from. Past experiences clearly shows that.
I am GLAD you have what you have, Agar, and that it works for you. If you've apparently found someone reputable who deals in PP dogs or train them yourself, you might wanna PM Shep007 and give them some info & pricing so they know what to realistically expect.

katjo74-  so right you are that many come on here stating they got bumped over the head from buying a dog they were told was a total manstopper but when it arrived it had about the courage of a hamster. lol  I think the primary reason this happens more often times than not is a. people will buy a dog sight unseen and just take the word of the seller as gospel b. they themselves aren't really educated enough to know what to look for to determine if the dog "has it" to be a pp dog or they don't understand what the make up of the dog necessarily should be to give them what they think they want.  Most times they don't even really KNOW what they want.  And then there is c. which could be the person who really has not a clue as to what a good pp dog goes for and thinks if they paid $1500-2000 they got a top notch dog at a hellava deal.

I'd be very hesitant to buy anything from anyone I either personally never dealt with or knew someone who dealt with them in the past that can say "yes they are honest and have good dogs".  I tell everyone or anyone who's "looking" or "thinking"  to talk to people who own these types of dogs, find out where they got them and what kind of experience they had.

Puppies are a little different situation since they're a crap shoot anyways, but speaking on the older dogs I myself would be careful and do extensive research before I send money.

Hi Uglydog:      I know what youve been doing....  watching the price of GOLD>>>>>>MMMMMMM>>>>you were right....

Glad to see you here...

Dont look for a Protection dog....go buy a german shepherd and train it ...why do you need a  pp dog?   may I ask...do you own a business???  

Do you know what a pp dog really is?    Just wondering....all the boys at my house dont carry the name  Protection DOG, but    I dare say you wouldnt make it three foot inside any fence line on my property or into my house....If you get inside a

357 colt magnum would be your fate....but I havent used it in 23 years so I guess my boys and girls have done their job...and I have never done  what people call     protection training on my boys.....

Dont need to ....they have a built in radar and they know how to use their talents....ask Mahon...he just bought one of  my 7 yr.old females...will she  can she   does she?????? No one will be crossing his fence line either...

I agree, Agar.  People don't know what they're doing, and in like the buying/selling of all sorts of livestock in general (consider the Quarter horse industry-it's full of garbage-things going on, too), I think if they wanna learn something, they go talk to people and get educated. THEN consider a purchase.
Crapshoot pups. lol. I've heard that alot, too. lol. But, I guess its true. You can't eyeball 7- 6wk old pups and typically tell the 'best' protection pup unless maybe the alpha is available-but that one takes an experienced hand and not a novice. Alot changes between 6wks and 6 mos...and 16 mos, and so forth.

SHEP007- I truly hope you are listening close to all this being said-alot of good sound advice is found here for you in response to your question. We are trying to help you keep from making a potential expensive mistake. I would not be focused on buying something overseas-you're not looking at what you're getting and you just don't know what you're getting until you see it at the airport and generally by then, it's yours, period-like it or not. Most overseas breeders don't give guarantees nor refunds unless the dog DIES in transit, and even then you have to be able to prove it wasn't your fault.
1. Get educated on both the breed in general and bloodlines because different bloodlines will generally produce different temperaments, (go to schutzhund clubs, check references, read books, talk with respected breeders, whatever this may take)
2. Find someone reputable (sleep on it and trust your gut-if you're up all night fretting about something or if something doesn't sound right, well, consider it!), and
3. go from there and see what happens.
And who knows--maybe the initial idea will fade in glamour with all we've said and you'll be glad you didn't spend the $.