choke collars - Page 4

Its all Held's fault!!!!    

Also, be so kind as to point out where I insulted anyone. I suppose you could say I was calling Held a bleeding heart, but last I checked, that pales in comparison to what some people call an insult around here. Explain to me how saying a correction collar must be used in a balanced way "bashing"?

I didn't bash anyone, just explained my opinion on training collars. I thought I made myself pretty clear in my view that a training collar is not for everyone, but rather a personal choice. No one has the right to call anyone right or wrong, but I did take offense to Held's blanket statement that inferred those that use training collars "choke puppies". I felt it was a grossly ignorant blanket statement, and I'm not afraid to say so. I guess that's the beauty of the internet, people can misread the nuances of your communication.

I didn't like his statement either but I didn't jump down everyone elses throat about it.  You did.  You are damn right you can call them as you see them.  Guess what, everyone else can too. 

Did I call you out by name? or Don? I often agree with much of what you two say. Excuse me, I'll make it a point to list exactly who I am referring to in the future so no gets confused or defensive. I wrongfully assumed those who did NOT respond like Held did would just figure out on their own I wasn't talking about them.  I was also referring to the kind of people that Deeswolf brought up, the kind that think her puppy is being abused because it wears said collars.

Whatever, it's like nailing jello to a tree around here.

just want to say that no one needs to get too emmotional here but next time be more clear in your statements because if you are walking around with a gun in your hands no one going to assume you are going to church.if you are putting it on a puppy to get him to get used to wearing it , is one thing but if you are not clear in stating your ideas about pinch collers and choke collers as to why you want to put it on a puppy ,this is where too many inexperienced people get wrong ideas and start to actually use these tools without understanding the logic and proper way and time to use these tools of the trade.also i like to say that if you use these tools on puppies for reason other then introducing it to the puppy and getting him used to wearing it,then perhaps you should consider a different breed of dog that is more calm and easy to live with there is nothing wrong with that.i just see too many dogs being mistreated in the name of training and shutzhund and i do not like it and will always speak up about that.hope this explaines where i am comming from.have a nice one.

 Now, I'm NOT bashing anyone, but this statement made me think: "Your dogs are so well behaved, why do you make them wear that collar?" to which I answer, "They are well behaved because they wear that collar!"

I quit using a collar years ago when they are in the house/yard, I grab them by the scruff of the neck and pinch with finger nails, If really want thier attention I will pinch an ear. When going out I use a pinch, they are to dam strong and I got tired of the blisters when training. As adults when the pinch goes on, It is like telling them they have to mind thier manners.

I was a fool yesterday, In a hurry running late and not paying attention and dogs not leashed, When loading the dogs in the car I always check out who is out walking, I did not do it, We all ran to the car, Shep and Rottie, Shep goes to guy in front of the house his dog on leash and baby in stroller then Rottie following, OH SHIT, Thank the heavens for OB, Quick run by sniff of other dog and  when called into the car. I was thankful his dog was a calm one, and my 2 listened. I am falling on the sword, to remind everyone we all make mistakes, that could have been avoidable.  I had to many other things on my mind, and did a VERY dumb thing, i just got lucky,

Shasta,

I assume that you are talking about my well behaved dogs, I'm not really sure.  Thats the problem with boards, lack of real communication.  

My dogs are so well behaved because we all live together as a family, we (my human family) spend every waking moment with them.   I mean I still have a life but my dogs are a part of it.  Being together so much brings much understanding and communicating to the mix.   Your kids learn in much the same way.     Training is only a small part of the total picture.

I dont train like others here, its not Schutzhund or sport.  Its like raising children.   I dont own that type of dog.   Anyway everyone calm down and agree you all do things differently.   And Held your alright, I know where your coming from.

Right now I'm playing a muddy version of russian roulet at the back door with a bitch in heat and a stud who both have free range of the place.  I could put them both in a kennel but it would be like locking your kid in his room for two weeks.

Never a dull moment.

imo.. the fact is that a truly good trainer dosent need to use a choke on a young puppy.

i think that using a choke on a pup under 5 months is a bad idea but i will not think badly of somone who dose.

it is personal preference,,,

I must say that there will always be a different way of looking at things. I see a puppy that is less than 5-6 months old not being strong enough to handle a choker on the live ring. That is just me, not that other people are wrong or not.

The whole thing started out as a question on what age should it be used. That tells me that it was not as an introduction tool but rather a training device. Not saying it is wrong, I have, since I was 11, always been told by my departed grandpa and people just recently, to make it a game. Have fun with the pup. I think that once you put a choker on, and it is on the live ring, that takes the fun away from a puppy. When the pup is not having fun, they usually lock up which for new handlers, get the handlers even more frustrated. That can lead to abuse or the person just giving up. I have seen this too often.

I still agree with my first post and with many other people that posted too. We all have different ways of training. Try not to have an open ended question. Ask the question in more detail, so that there won't be so many off the wall responses.

John Kennedy