As my dog FITS the breed standard (it has been graded Class 1 at a UK Breed Survey) I have no need to show my dog further.

I cannot see anywhere in my posts where I have referred to weight of dog or anything else.  I stated that all my dogs of ANY breed have been able to perform correctly which means they must therefore be put together correctly as otherwise they would have a short working life and/or be incapable of achieving their titles.

I do not consider myself a "fanatic" of anything neither have I decried Rotties (unless you can find something in my post that is obviously missing from me)

Neither have I "attacked" anyone who breed or owns a showline dog, that is their choice (I am hardly likely to denigrate ANYONE who is successful in ANY field with ANY breed of dog having worked a "minority breed" for some years).

I merely stated that I loathed showing, especially GSD showing.

I have absolutely NO knowledge about GSDs, their pedigrees, conformation etc but I am happy with what I have.

I just had a thought ................ maybe I should put an advert in the stud dog section that I am looking for a workingline dog to use at stud in U.K. with the minimum criteria of   Sch.H.3. Kkl.1. hip & elbow status. haemophilia tested. with good respected working bloodlines and  reasonable conformation.   ?????.

That way I'm not upsetting anybody I hope !.

Had no intentions of coming back onto this board, at least not so soon but could not let such a superb post from Chris Bows go by without extending my applause.

Nugget, (by name but not by nature that's for certain) Chris Bows is someone who has very effectively embraced both sides Breed and Working side with much success.  Thanks for your post above, very well said, I hate it when the Working Side attacks the Breed and Visa Versa. As you know there are many 'old hands' from the Breed side that have always acknowledged and respected the BSA lot (as it were), good grief we were around when the organisation was formed and many of the BSA stalwarts come from the Breed Side and we are all aware of how the KC all but turned it into an underground movement for a time. There are still quite a few of these 'old hands' doing their best to keep the Breed Dog improving towards the True Shepherd (in every sence of the word). We visit the German Sieger to keep abreast of the bloodlines and to check out characters for ourselves, So it was with my knowledge of the breed that I had used Bazi Urbecke on my German female only days before he gained Auslese in his Bite Test Scores at the Bundessieger-Zuchtschau last year. An excellent specimen with a character to match. 

Come on all you working enthusiasts, dont write us all off, some of us are continually striving to produce the dog we ALL want to own, Chris is right, we all need to work together to better our breed, its the only way and accept that none of us are perfect.

Best Regards

Sue B

SueB.     I am very much in agreement with you on what you are saying. I too want qualities from both camps but am finding it difficult in the U.K. to do so. I have put an advert in the stud dog section to try and locate a stud dog to use with the criteria I'm looking for. I know the perfect dog has not been born but I don't feel that I am asking for perfection, I'm only looking for something in the U.K. rather than have to cross the water at this point in time.

V Hirro vom Weinbergblick

SCHH3 3XBSP Kkl 1

This dog is in the UK and competed in the Nationals.

Langhaar.    Thank you for your reply. I have seen this dog before but cant find out whether he is in fact elbow X-rayed and Haemophilia tested. Do you know the owner ?. I was hoping that both parents of the dog that I use will be of equal standing.

Eric wight I do believe of Carlsbro Kennels.  HD-SV: HD a-normal (a1)

he is on this database

Few more thoughts on this one;

In the UK I consider that that most showline breeders title their dogs in SCH for two reasons 1) in order to exhibit them in Europe or 2) They aspire towards parity with the standards and aspirations of breeders in Europe. Few do this themselves completely, generally engaging the service of professional trainers who title the dogs. Gaining these titles is seen as necessary, rather than a pleasurable pastime to many- after all exhibiting their animals is their main concern. (There are exceptions to this, nevertheless, who aspire to title their own dogs, and see this as a worthwhile achievement).

As time is money, often these dogs do not achieve their true working potential-presenting on occasion to working people as dogs of questionable character that evidence signs of stress and avoidance, influencing negatively the working fraternity’s view of temperaments in show dogs-but they conveniently fail to take the above into consideration. You simply cannot title a dog to SCH111 in a matter of months without seeing the undesirable side effects noted above. This is why successful sports dog trainers take years to bring dogs to this level.

I, however, do not hold it against showline enthusiasts that this occurs. After all, breeding/exhibiting is their interest, not schutzhund- to them it is generally a requirement/standard, to me it is a competitive sport- and obsession. I am sure that they are just as dedicated to achieving their own goals. They have not the time to be successful in both sides of the sport-neither have I, although I enjoyed the breed shows. It therefore follows we prioritise different aspects of the dog- anatomical/working ability.  

The problem for me in all this is, however that I consider The Sieger show is not merely a beauty contest. I often read posts from those that aspire to the “Golden Middle” of a beautiful dog that can work. I believe the Sieger should be this “Golden Middle”. After all, it purports to be the breeding shop window  to the World of the ultimate “utility Dog”- There is no reason, with direction and will, why this could not actually be the case.

by Kaffirdog on 01 April 2008 - 22:04