Kurtridge Mr Frost (aged 14mths) - Page 4

Speaknow, the reason linebreeding on Mark at the 4th or 5th generation is a big deal is because Mark was extremely prepotent for male type, and beauty and brains when linebred at 4 or 5, and those sires out of that breeding tend to bring everything out again from Mark to their offspring if they are good producers.  Linebreeding too close is a recipe for disaster.  I was once told by an old time breeder hat Mark was well known for producing beauty and brains.  In many cases the Mark blood comes out very strongly when linebred at 4  or 5.  Don't know why this is, but it just is.  That tendency could make Ice very valuable to the breed if he turns out to be prepotent producer like Mark.  Dr. Beck had quite a good reputation among breeders and breed wardens for producing very excellent stock. Truly was one of the greatest breeders ever of quality GSDs with brains and beauty too.  Some believe that Mark has produced more class than any other tp egrman stud dog in the breed's history.  I personally think that is true.

Speaknow, the last thing that made Mark so unique was that he carried the full impact mentally that Lasso di val sol was so well known for.  He was linebred off of Lasso, who was believed to have absolutely faultless working temperament and was as hard as nails.  It is my understanding that Lasso did not produce much class, color or beauty in general (not really known as a big producer), but when combined with Quanto and Canto, you got the Weinerau class and beauty, the heavy bone, masculinity, and superb posternum and front layback of Quanto, with the movement and agility and Canto and the hardness, health and robustness that could be lacking from too much Canto alone.  Mark was prepotent for good, especially if linebred, and for some strange reason was able to pull out everything good from Lasso and still give class, type, masculinity, bone and posturnum.  Doesn't that seem to describe Ice and what he is producing in males?  As a GSD Lasso was among the best and many of his best traits for working came right back full force through Mark.  Could Ice be a replacement for Mark?  Only time will tell.  But if I had to predict I would say he's got a very good chance of doing so and continuing the Mark line at full breeding value.

Cannot imagine why this same post was previously deleted but as the saying goes if at first etc etc ??

Preston, please give names of other dogs which prove your 4th / 5th generation theory for Mark haus Beck.

AS

what a stunning boy you should be proud he is his father through and through a complete stunning handsome boy wish you would show him methinks he would beat the sooks off of some of the other dogs in the ring

AS, Ice is the best replica of Mark so far.  Consider that he is linebred off of Mark.  I'll bet he carries a heavy load of Mark's traits.  But time will tell.  Oh by the way, linebreeding at the 4-4 or 4-5 level of intensity to maximize type of the desired sire is not a throry, it is a proven fact.  Ask any top breed warden in Germany.  This is considered one of their many trade secrets and why the West German breeders continue to breed the best GSDs in the world (even with their many problems), and they will probably always be the best because they keep their breeding secrets close within their tight knit circle.  But don't take my word for it ask a breed warden.

(But why are we devoting so much space to Ice?)
and here is me thinking it was simply because he is such an "outstanding male"

(But why are we devoting so much space to Ice?)
 

Because he's Jack's sire and the thread was just me sharing pics of my boy

SN, you are calculating % of blood based on geometric mathematical divisions, not actual genetic reality. It's what genes are passed from the parent to the progeny that matters and a pedigree can't determine that.  You should know better.  

Anyone who has studied GSD genetics in detail and talked to some of the top old time breeders knows that "top producing" animals (sires or dams) pass more of their of their dominant genes, and stacked or paired recessives to their progeny.  Poor producers pass near nothings as far as type.  Often these dominant gene complexes of the producers are so dominant they keep being passed on down through the lines and are kicked out in phenotype by linebreeding at the 4-4, or 4-5 level.  The main thing you will then see is the type and characteristics of the dog being linebred off of.  So what we are talking about here is the need to actually race specific genes and complexes of genes down through the progeny line.  Some day this will happen.  Do you think it is just a cooincidence that C. Ice looks so much like Mark?  Could it be that he is the expression of Mark's producing genes that were brought to the phenotype by correct linebreeding off of Mark. Yep that's it.

Mark was known to be dominant for type and character (including intelligence and working abilty which came from Lasso--not theory, but established fact).   In my view, Ch. Ice has the same type as Mark, and in time I predict he will be the producer of beauty and brains that Mark was known for (again not theory but established fact).  It doesn't matter if you like DP of Videx or not.  Consider the Dog.  And anybody who rationally evaluates Ch. Ice has to admit he is a very nice GSD in character and conformation.  Plus for the showring enthusiasts he is a spectacular mover from the side.  The dog has beauty, class and brains.  Personally I don't believe Ch. Ice is oversized, but maybe right at the upper limit.  Sometimes a breeder can do things which preduldice a judge to push the measuring jig downward harder than usual in the grass.

After a few years we are going to know if Ch. Ice is a big producer of Mark's heritage.  Don't be surprised if he is.

It will help breeders to evaluate CH. Ice's producing ability if the look at this page and click on each of his progeny, this is his first crop in the UK, and is no means all of them, more will certinly be added,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/progeny_pictures/449512.html
You can see larger photo's here: http://www.videxgsd.com/ice_puppies.htm