A bloat question - Page 4

One of the main causes of bloat is "aerophagia"--swollowing air while gulping food, fence-fighting, howling while a bitch is in heat, etc.--even on a completely empty stomach.

yellowrose of Texas, you may wish to add an activated charcoal capsule in his food to prevent/relieve the gas. I used to give this to one of my dogs in the '70's after he had survived bloat surgery.

I'll share my experience and give my opinion to the question.

The only thing that I think set's raw aside from kibble is it's expansion.  Kibble will expand when mixed with water (some expand more than others).  If this is not allowed to happen in a bowl before they eat it will happen in their stomach afterwards.  Raw will not do this.  With kibble it is easier for a dog, especially a glutton to over-eat then have the kibble expand in the stomach, creating a problem.  Can a dog bloat on raw, yes, is it as likely, no I don't believe, because of this expansion factor.

If a dog chew's his food vs swallow's it whole, I believe the kibble expansion factor plays a more significant role (chewed up kibble takes up less volume than whole kibble)

If a dog gulps/gobble's his food and eats it whole he takes in more air....part of the bloat equation.

Now I have always been careful not to mix excersise+water+food becase that is just asking for trouble.

However just last week my bitch bloated after her second meal of the day.  Luckily I knew exactly what was happening and rushed her right into the ER.  They did surgery and saved her life. 

I was trying to think if what I did.  Nothing different than any other day.  Due to my schedule the meals were a little closer than usual, but only by 1.5 hrs or so.  She only eats 1.5 cups at a time, so even with 3 cups in her belly it does not strike me as too much.  It is possible she got into some other food...they have been stealing food lately.  I do not hold back water during meals, but she did not drink excessively...no more than usual.

After they ate I let them out before leaving for work...something I do all the time.  When they go out they bark a little but stop unless there's something outside.  This is what I think did her in, barking...and perhaps a little fence running but they weren't out very long.  I never thought about briefly letting them outside to do their business could be the "excersise" part of the bloat equation...well now I do.

This dog is also genetically predisposed to bloat, one littermates as well has her father bloated.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/532446.html

Regards,

Melanie

I've had one dog bloat, though it scares the crap out of me for the others that I have know. 

This dog was almost 16 years old and in her case I think that there was an underlying problem vs a food issue. 

Though I feed my dogs a quality diet mixed with raw food.  There's so much of a genetic disposition to it.  Now, I'm just 34 and have had only handful of dogs so therefore have only lost a handful of dogs.

Lost a sheltie at almost 16 years of age, ate crap food for the first ten years of his life before I "knew better"  Moist and meaty to be exact.  :)  Gringe when I look at the stuff now!  LOL

Lost a Shepherd/Beagle mix at 9 years old to Hemangiosarcoma.  He had the best food and ate raw for a good portion of his life.  Bless his little heart.   God, do I miss that dog.  Talk about personality!  He had such soulful eyes.

Now, to the "miracle" dog so to speak.  The bloater.  :)

Let's see Dobie mix, lived in the city next to a refinery her entire life, ate crap food until she met me through my husband.  Had a laundry list, literally a list of several ailments and lived to be almost 17 years old.  This list included at least one cancer, Thyroid Carcinoma with mets in her chest.   Wobblers, hypothyroidism, Vestibular are 14 (that's a minor problem in her case, LOL).   Then at 16, she bloats, at that point had been living with thyroid carcinoma for a good four years, knew about the tumors in her chest for a year.  99% of the world would have let her go then, but I opted for surgery, which she survived and lived a full year later, go figure.  The way I figure, she didn't live that long to die of bloat!

Bless her heart!

 From Deeswolf:

"My concerns with raw, are based in the FACT that the majority of people who pursue raw feeding, haven't a clue what they are doing. So much goes into doing it correctly. "

Could not agree more......too many people just do it because they think it is the "in" thing to do. I have had hundreds of GSDs and they have all been fed kibble. Others probably have had as many GSDs they fed raw. Feed what you like and what gives the dog good nutrition. Use common sense. Would you eat a full meal and then go out and run around vigorously for a long time? I don't think so. When I feed, afterwards there is enforced quiet time.

Not all dogs who bloat eat fast either. 

The proof of the diet is in the "pudding", meaning how the dog looks, whether it is healthy, has a nice coat, its stamina and energy level etc. Excellent powers of observation go a long way to deciding what does and does not work.

Here's my opinions on bloat:  It is clearly genetic, and I noticed it in certain bloodlines in higher frequency.  It may be simply polygenic recessive, or may be more comples such as dominance with incomplete penetrance, or dark DNA switch controlled, or all three in some combination. There are two distinct types of intestinal bloat, simple without torsion(no twisting and blockage of blood supply and motility) and advanced with twisting and disruption/blockage of blood supply and motility, preventing oxygenation of cells, thus cell death, and preventing venting or passing of gasses, further stressing the gut.  There is another type of torsion, perhaps more frequent, and it is not the same (it is the twisting of the spleen, splenic torsion, or can even be a colic of the spleen, or a stenosis or brusing o the blood supply to the spleen, which can disrupt the blood supply without actual torsion--direct massage by a vet after accessing it by incision can sometimes save the spleen which shows pallor on direct examination, but it is probably better to remove it, since repititive occurrences are likely).

GSDs with correct chest confirmation, length, width, volume, and good ligamentation--ie strong mesentary support of the intestine, and those which have a normal burp reflex normally will not bloat or develop torsion if they are fede a very high quality food.  I believe that all things equivalent, raw is probably better to prevent bloat or torsion than dry.  The only GSD I ever had that bloated never belched.  All the other ones I have had, as well as other breeders I have know that belched right after eating never got bloat or any subsequent torsion.  I had a large bitch with very deep chest that bloated right after a big dry food meal.  I thought she would go on to have torsion and took her in but by the time I got to the vet the bloat subsided and she never torsioned. 

It often goes like this.  A GSD eats, maybe drinks water, gas forms in the intestine, the intestine rises like a balloon since the GSD can't belch, so the gut twists as it rises, disrupying the blood supply and passing of gasses forward or back (they become trapped and more gas forms).  If you tube the GSD mmediately with a large greased pastic esophagal to gut vent tube, one can often vent the gas.  Some vets will prescribe this and train you.  Some very experienced vets will insert a large needle to vent the bloat after an xray and then do surgery to tack down the intestine.

I have known a couple of breeding kennels that experienced splenic torsion, more common gthan most realize and hard to diagnose.  This is different than intestinal torsion and usually occurs after excessive exercise with jumping, turning, twisting or hitting the spleen hard against and object (going through a kennel dooor hard and hittting the rib cage area hard).  Untreated this causes the GSD to go into and irreversible shock, just like intestinal torsion, but the gut area usually doesn't swell up as much, making diagnoses difficult.

I don't agree with what the Purdue studies claim.  In my view their sampling was deficient in my view as was their research design in general. Anyone who thinks intestinal bloat and torsion, or splenic torsion or colic are not genetic is just plain wrong in my view. If you don't agree fine, I am just providing this information to help folks.