The Pet Quality Pup Issue Again? - Page 4

Echo well said...

One could make the argument that only Navy Seals should be allowed to have children.  Your average soldier, sailor or grunt should not.

Look.  I am all for improving the breed, blah, blah, blah.

But what I don't understand is how does someone do that?  You breed what you think are two well matched dogs, both titled and tested.  You still get HD, ED, epilepsy, etc.  In reality, only the absolute very best dogs should be allowed to be bred, in order to improve the breed.  Not just your average Sch II dog, located in Alabama or Ohio, but only the BSP or BSZS top ten dogs.  Then comes the problem of genetic diversity.  So.  Again, how do we do it properly.  By letting Joe, Jill, Tammy and Bob decide what is a good match?  Even if those people have titled and tested dogs?  Or, do we only allow the SV to decide what dog can be bred to what dog?

This breed orginated in Germany and was carefully bred of only, what was thought at the time, of the best herding dogs around.  With all of the qualities Capt. Stephanitz deemed appropriate for "his" breed.  Then things changed and the breed was directed towards "other" jobs, but still carefully bred for those new qualities.  Okay, we all know this stuff.

My point being, that the breed is plagued by problems that many other breeds do not have.  Breeds that were not tested "on the field", but instead, were bred for other specific purposes, including pets.

So.  Where did "we" go wrong?

Was it a lack of knowledge about inheritable problems (genetics), or lack of ability to diagnose those problems (x-rays and such), or was it keeping our eyes on the wrong things (nerve, drive, looks) and not on the total package?

A check of the internet for the percentages you could expect from breedings of "this hip rating to that hip rating", reveals the statistics for what you could "expect" from breeding, let's say,  a "borderline" male to a "good" female (OFA designations concerning hips) or if you bred a "good" male to a "good" female.  The differences are small percentages.

Meaning what?  That, like playing poker, we play the odds as best as we can, and that is all we can do.  Or, does it mean that only the SV should be allowed to decide what dogs get bred, and not Joe, Jill, Bob and Tammy?  IF, we really want to improve the breed.

Then comes up the argument that the breed is in such a bad state of affairs, that an infusion of, maybe the Malinois, is needed.  I am not saying that this is how I think about it (I don't), and I am not the first person to bring up this possibility (I'm not).  But these are "food for thought" comments.

Jeck Noricum is in almost everybodies showlines, and there are others, that had borderline hips, but they were used because they tested and trialed well.  Big mistakes?  The current VA1 is NZ for ED.  Big mistake again?

Someone once told me on this forum, to "get over myself" with my beliefs about this or that.  Well.  Ya'll just might need to "get over yourselves" concerning this titled dogs only crap.  A great family pet is much better than a great Schutzhund titled dog.  For most people.

Waiting for the slings and arrows

What self serving stupidity!!!!!!!!!! There are indeed more than enough dogs in shelters for people seeking pets. There is no need to breed for pet quality unless you are just rying to turn a buck. The sad part is a couple of you actually believe the tripe you type.

That's as nice as it gets for you assholes who are destroying the breed because you really don't care about anything except the money.

hmmm- I ask a clarification on a statement. you made.  I insert the reson why I ask.  You call me critical.  Then chide me for using too much space.  Hahaha. - in truth, the technicalities of what happens when you insert a clip are beyond my control Alabama K9 - the format is why do you critize something like that? and actually, I seem to remember reading that you asked Rinus B if you could use his kennel name for this dog - now you blame your gaffe on someone else.  Don't you remember what you write?

Hey spooky old buddy.  Where ya been.  Been waiting for you to crawl out of your hole and join the party.  I thought it would be you or uglydog to throw the first rock.  I am sure Abhay will show up shortly.

I only have a couple of questions for you spooky old boy.

What title did your daddy and mommy have?

Do the parents of your children have titles?

Seriously though.  Final question.

Should all family pet GSD's, be rejects from sport dog breedings, or should there be no pet GSD's?

Hahaha. - in truth, the technicalities of what happens when you insert a clip are beyond my control Alabama K9 - the format is why do you critize something like that? and actually, I seem to remember reading that you asked Rinus B if you could use his kennel name for this dog - now you blame your gaffe on someone else.  Don't you remember what you write?

Of course she doesn't. She thought she named the dog Vom Nachbarschaft. She forgot. LOL

Good Thoughts Everyone!!!  I knew there would be people getting fired up, but we all love the breed or we wouldn't be here.  I agree with many of your thoughts and concerns.  I understand the people who are totally against it...The GSD IS A WORKING DOG...that makes complete sense.  I also understand some of the people who think it might be ok...There are hundreds of people breeding GSD's that have no idea what they could be passing down genetics wise, plus dogs that are unstable, so why not breed dogs that have a good chance of passing down good genetics and temperment...that makes sense as well.

The only comment I won't agree with is:

"That's as nice as it gets for you assholes who are destroying the breed because you really don't care about anything except the money."

Ok...I'm new to this, but unless you buy a pup from a BYB for nothing and breed like crazy and sell your pups for next to nothing, that's the only way you'll make money.  I'm sure the very well known large kennels that breed some of the best GSD's in the country and do all of their own training make some money, but for everyone else, it's one hell of an expensive hobby (passion).  Even if you buy a good pup, get a BH,OFA, etc, It's still not cheap by any means!  Perhaps you were talking about the BYB's, anyways, no offense, I'm not on here to argue, but to learn.

• Stand by the paddock gate and make sure that up to 1,500 hungry sheep don’t stampede or break down the gate,
• Escort the sheep to the grazing pasture which can be several miles away, all the while keeping the sheep along the side of the road whenever a car comes along and out of tasty crops along the way,
• Once in the grazing pasture, establish and trot a boundary that the sheep are not supposed to cross – the trotting goes on the entire time the sheep are in the graze,
• Run down, grip and drag back to the graze any tough 300 lb. rams who decide that maybe the carrots in the next field over might taste better than this dry grass and who might be willing to try to kick the dog’s teeth down his throat to get over there, and
• At the end of the day, take the sheep back to the paddock, again making sure they don’t stampede or wreck the gate.

(cont.)