Great GSDs from the past - Page 4

So he was YELLOW Sable after all... And to think of it his line produced the now dominant BLACK and Tan...To think of it Sable in Germany means "very dark" but Horand SZ1 was YELLOW..???

Yes  Yellow Tan and then he, Horand and other typey foundation sires were interbred with working shepherd dogs.....In 1899 first annual Siegerschau was held and dog named Jorg von der Krone    Sieger and Lisie von Schwenningen  named Siegerin

Next question will be... what was the COAT type then...??? Curly ..short .. long... it was all consolidated to the coat -type we now know  today as STOCKHARRIG... any ideas... but the short stock is the most suitable for work am I right...???

Originall, sheep herding dogs world wide were chosen for their abilities rather than theri appearnace...Long , short  curly, corded and wiry coat genes were mixed indiscrimm=inately. Colors ranged from White or tan to ray or black and combinations thereof. Earset ,size and   proportions didnt matter as long as the dog could work....Genes susch as these can lie hidden for generations, suddenly popping up in a  litter with no apparent history of the characteristic. Some of the surprises are disappointing for the serious breeder: long coats, poor toplines, ears that wont stand. Others may blend to create the one dog in a million for which we;re all striving. .Breed types formed due to climate, terrain and owner preference. DOgs tended to procreate in their  own proximity. In Germany, the wolf-grey sheep herding dogs from Thuringia and Franconia were wiry and small, though coarse and stocky in build...tHEIR EARS WERE STRONGLY ERECT AND TAILS CURLED.  The lop=eared Wurttempberg shepherds were larger all over,with better bone, tails and movement ...Once selective breeding began,these types were interbred, concentrating on the all-important herding and protection  instincts.as well as appearance.

The shepherds wanted dogs that were loyal to their territories and flocks and defended them against predators but also had the intelligence to obey with the reasoning power to make decisions on their own when neccessary.

class over   bring notebooks tomorrow and we will resume our lessons.....hahahah  lol 

source of previous post is an article by  September b Morn  from Germans Shephed Dog club of America fo America-working dog club assoc.,and Verein fur Deutsche Schaferhunde  www.schaeferhund.de/   and German shepherd Dog club of Amwerica   and his co author Chris Walkowicz

Ceph, I was told this by a guy who was the kennel boy for Klodo. Interestingly, I really doubt that he has any influence currently. The big problem with sharp dogs is that they can produce nervy dogs. To me sharpness is a very thin line between nervy and stable. That is the best way to describe it. Also, I think that so many people have such completely different definitions of EVERYTHING that it is soooo hard to know exactly what was right.

I have worked dogs and seen how they were advertised for sale, and WOW!!!!!! Not the description I would have given the dog. Sometimes it is way exagerated, (more often than not) sometimes it is kennel blindness covering some sort of fault, sometimes it is just a different definition. I find that the bar is lowered for various terms.

I am not sure I could advertise a dog very well, as I am a hard critic no matter whose dog it is. Really sure that none of mine would sell, as I know everything about the little weasels : )

Speaking of weird throw backs, how many of you have seen wire hair in the GSD???? I have seen 1 ever, and I saw the litter and the parents, no weirdness there.

I know you are all mentioning males, but what about Palme Wildsteiger Land??  :) 

No never seen wiry  but when we breed we  have to remember how far back some of these genes pop up ... In the past, American Breeders had great sucess combining their lines with dogs of German stock.     Unfortunately, for many years now the two styles have grown so disparate that interbreeding is not commonly done.   an AKC Judge Rev Dr. C Patric Ormos of Indiana,says " Those crossings, which served to stabilize breed type across the world,seem to be going the way of the Dodo bird, Too many people on both sides of the Atlantic got tunnel vision at the same time. In Americq, we bred so heavenly on Lance that we have boxed ourselves into a corner.   In Germany, we did the same thing based on another dog, Canto v Wienerau.

Fanciers on both sides of the ocean could profit from the strengths of each lineage if care is taken to find good dogs not showing either extreme of type.When characteristics are taken to extremes, atributes can become faults..   Dan Smith the former  past  pres of the GSDCA is one breeder who started choosing the best of the American and german lines and using judicious interbreeding. He believes that the true shepherd character and intelligence are displayed by a higher percentage of German dogs, probably because of the controlled breeding program.     He states  'We've tried to breed dogs that work..."

Jeff, 
I have also seen one curly wire haired puppy GSD. Also from completely normal looking parents. Never had one myself (yet! knock on wood!).

Speaking of throwbacks..I know you can have throwbacks to the black, given correct genetics (always thought this was a completely recessive trait, but apparently I was mistaken), but what about white?  Wondering where THAT (genetics-wise) came from originally.  :) I haven't done much research on that particular issue. Any of you who have? I'd love to see what you've come up with.

-Melanie